Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness • Hacker News Board

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#171

Post by klyrs » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 5:57 AM UTC

firewolf34 wrote: post #150

brailsafe wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your points here are worth more emphasis. As a chronically unemployed software dev who's burnt out and crashed at least 3 times, I've spent a hell of a lot of time reflecting, and try my best to communicate these ideas to people who have the opposite problem; lots of work, but no new friends since highschool, and desperately single. People tend to rely far too heavily on the easiest way to convince themselves they're…

> My theory is that to meet a new person and have it be substantial, you basically need to spend a few hours, a few times per week, in the same space doing some arbitrarily interesting thing for a common reason, without being too eager but with a signaled sense of openness. I like this concept, and I feel like I've experienced this as well, but I'm having trouble picturing an example of what you're describing, practi…

I kinda met a gal in a class I was taking at a community center. Couldn't tell if she's into me or just nice; didn't push it. Maybe I'll see her in another class in the future, but I'm there to learn.

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#172

Post by qwery » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 6:02 AM UTC

imgabe wrote: post #118

miki123211 wrote: post #95

This author is seriously suggesting that governments ban children's use of social media, and that can't really be done without completely destroying internet anonymity. Any policy that actually achieved this, without being trivial to circumvent, would basically need to replicate the great firewall of China. Doing this in a half-assed way is even worse than not doing anything at all. If you just require ID checks for…

There are two avenues to deal with a hazard. You can try to manipulate the environment to eliminate the hazard, or you can try to strengthen people to make them immune to the hazard. I think we should prefer the latter over the former whenever possible. For one thing, it's more robust. The environment is messy and control is often illusory at best. Control limits freedoms and introduces centralized points of failure…

No, there's not. There's any number of ways to deal with a hazard. Your two avenues are not even distinct. Both require exerting control. Any scheme can be manipulated by bad actors. Scheming to not scheme is still scheming.

You cannot make people anything without limiting their freedom. How do you make people stronger? If you have an idea, there is a centralised point of control/failure. Bad actors will be more strong and free as well.

There's plenty of examples of successful measures to reduce harm by controlling the "environment" see: cigarettes, alcohol, gambling, being old enough to drive on public roads, being old enough to take on debt, child labour, etc.

It's weird to use the words "environment" and "hazard" on one hand and "people" on the other. The discussion is about hazards designed, created and maintained by people. The environment to manipulate is people, organisations, and law.

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#173

Post by NoPicklez » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 6:08 AM UTC

rgbrenner wrote: post #145

The author had it right in the first paragraph. In the 90s version of this hysteria, Congress passed a law that would have prevented access to education medical information, dirty curse words, and other filth from being published on the internet to protect the children. The federal government fought a case all the way to the Supreme Court to enforce it. If they had won that case, the internet would look very differen…

Everyone has the ability to exercise personal accountability for how much they gamble, smoke, eat junk food, play video games, use social media etc. However, if these consumer products become so addictive, or are designed to be so engaging and as a result people are by and large struggling to exercise personal accountability and it is causing adverse health outcomes.

Then the government should step in, either should forceful action or through promoting healthier alternatives or shining a light on its damaging effects.

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#174

Post by pompino » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 6:09 AM UTC

Conversations around new regulations on the internet are eerily similar to conversations about regulations on firearms in the US.

"It won't fix anything or address the issue"

"The cure is worse than the disease"

"Doing it half-assed is worse"

"Its not even possible to implement ___"

"The real cause is something else"

"Its against freedom"

"Its too late to do anything because ___"

etc.

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#175

Post by qwery » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 6:14 AM UTC

rgbrenner wrote: post #145

The author had it right in the first paragraph. In the 90s version of this hysteria, Congress passed a law that would have prevented access to education medical information, dirty curse words, and other filth from being published on the internet to protect the children. The federal government fought a case all the way to the Supreme Court to enforce it. If they had won that case, the internet would look very differen…

> But these are communications platforms.

While technically true, this is a gross misrepresentation. Calling these sites and apps "communications platforms" makes them sound like they're just a mail service or a telephone. This is akin to referring to a casino as "the town square".

> That's a freedom you and everyone else can take advantage of also.

This "can" is only true in a strict legal sense, of course.

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#176

Post by cdogl » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 6:16 AM UTC

NoPicklez wrote: post #173

rgbrenner wrote: post #145

The author had it right in the first paragraph. In the 90s version of this hysteria, Congress passed a law that would have prevented access to education medical information, dirty curse words, and other filth from being published on the internet to protect the children. The federal government fought a case all the way to the Supreme Court to enforce it. If they had won that case, the internet would look very differen…

Everyone has the ability to exercise personal accountability for how much they gamble, smoke, eat junk food, play video games, use social media etc. However, if these consumer products become so addictive, or are designed to be so engaging and as a result people are by and large struggling to exercise personal accountability and it is causing adverse health outcomes. Then the government should step in, either should…

The simply binary of government or individual choice eliminates the middle ground where almost all change happens: the collective aggregate result of cultural change within the community. We don’t have to pick one extreme to change the world!

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#177

Post by Loic » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 6:19 AM UTC

NoPicklez wrote: post #173

rgbrenner wrote: post #145

The author had it right in the first paragraph. In the 90s version of this hysteria, Congress passed a law that would have prevented access to education medical information, dirty curse words, and other filth from being published on the internet to protect the children. The federal government fought a case all the way to the Supreme Court to enforce it. If they had won that case, the internet would look very differen…

Everyone has the ability to exercise personal accountability for how much they gamble, smoke, eat junk food, play video games, use social media etc. However, if these consumer products become so addictive, or are designed to be so engaging and as a result people are by and large struggling to exercise personal accountability and it is causing adverse health outcomes. Then the government should step in, either should…

I explain to our kids that it is normal for them to have difficulties with stopping playing or looking at a stream from a social media platform.

My explanation is that they are fighting against a team of PhDs optimizing everything to make them addicted.

Luckily they all do a lot of sport and have this way disconnected time everyday.

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#178

Post by nyokodo » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 6:19 AM UTC

bart_spoon wrote: post #151

miki123211 wrote: post #95

This author is seriously suggesting that governments ban children's use of social media, and that can't really be done without completely destroying internet anonymity. Any policy that actually achieved this, without being trivial to circumvent, would basically need to replicate the great firewall of China. Doing this in a half-assed way is even worse than not doing anything at all. If you just require ID checks for…

We spend enormous amounts of time and energy trying to pick up the pieces of the destruction being left in the wake by social media giants as they get absurdly rich. How about we instead simply make the giants liable for what gets posted on their platforms? Let the “move fast and break things” crowd that is so certain of their own genius spend their billions on figuring it out instead of on how to get you to click on…

> How about we instead simply make the giants liable for what gets posted on their platforms?

Because social media is a tool for global social influence and global intelligence that the powers that be do not want to give up. Because those same powers are often invested in social media companies or don’t want to get on their list of enemies. Because it might look bad politically if it proved unpopular. Because they are all social media addicts. Take your pick.

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#179

Post by drak0n1c » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 6:19 AM UTC

miki123211 wrote: post #95

This author is seriously suggesting that governments ban children's use of social media, and that can't really be done without completely destroying internet anonymity. Any policy that actually achieved this, without being trivial to circumvent, would basically need to replicate the great firewall of China. Doing this in a half-assed way is even worse than not doing anything at all. If you just require ID checks for…

A similar form of middle ground without touching the app/web level may be to enable device parental controls by default on new Phone and Tablet purchases and rationing its removal with some kind of privacy-preserving ID hashing protocol that's also rate-limited per ID. 90% of the problem is mobile device ease related, it doesn't need to extend to PCs. Still a ton of burdensome consequences.

But really, the best policy would be constant social and educational emphasis on device parental control feature awareness - similar to drunk driving campaigns. Get parents and guardians in the habit of taking 15 min to set up basic parental controls BEFORE handing devices to kids. Rather than the all-too-common mess of reacting to a problem by taking the kids phone or making them manually show everything after the damage is already done. Maybe also compel device manufacturers to incorporate a first-time-setup flow that has a specific soft ask of "Will this device be given to or borrowed by a child?" that then handholds the owner through setting up controls.

Re: Yes, social media is a cause of the epidemic of teenage mental illness

#180

Post by smokel » Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 6:21 AM UTC

rgbrenner wrote: post #145

The author had it right in the first paragraph. In the 90s version of this hysteria, Congress passed a law that would have prevented access to education medical information, dirty curse words, and other filth from being published on the internet to protect the children. The federal government fought a case all the way to the Supreme Court to enforce it. If they had won that case, the internet would look very differen…

> then don't use them

This assumes that humans are rational agents. I think that drug addiction, wars in Israel and Ukraine, conspiracy theorists, and free-climbers sufficiently prove that this is not the case.

If only life were so easy, we would not even need to have this discussion.