Overview: What are Cpp2 and cppfront? How do I get and build cppfront? • Hacker News Board

Re: Overview: What are Cpp2 and cppfront? How do I get and build cppfront?

#171

Post by mgaunard » Thu, Apr 04, 2024, 12:33 PM UTC

tialaramex wrote: post #169

mgaunard wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How did you get the idea that I mistakenly believed WG21 is a "single person or entity"? > > classic WG21 choice > This is how WG21 ended up here. Programmers who believe that it just "doesn't really make much of a difference". Except, it turns out that everybody else can tell the difference C++ is a practical language for practical programmers solving real problems. Language purists or Rust zealots will be happier…

> classic WG21 choice So if I said that "Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism" act is a classic naming choice by the US Congress your understanding would be that I've mistaken the Congress for a "single person or entity" ? Even though in reality this stupid habit (ridiculous acronyms in the titles of legislation) is indeed a hallmark of American…

Users should make their own opinions and evaluate what is the solution that best satisfies their requirements -- which in most cases should be to build it themselves (third party code is mostly a liability in software development).

It seems you want to force people to use your "one true way". That's not programming, that's a religion.

Re: Overview: What are Cpp2 and cppfront? How do I get and build cppfront?

#172

Post by mgaunard » Thu, Apr 04, 2024, 3:06 PM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #150

tialaramex wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The main iteration this cycle for the next C++ is contracts. As ever the C++ train leaves on schedule with or without anything you suppose is "promised" for that standard revision. This has been the practice since 2011 and I don't expect it to stop unless ISO tells them "Enough" or the whole thing comes apart. > Contracts are all about introducing undefined behaviour if you don't satisfy a precondition. Nope. That'…

With Azure now only considering C++ for existing projects, and new projects require explicit reasoning why C or C++ instead of Rust, I expect some internal pressure at MS to do the right thing.

Web/cloud tech is usually at the complete opposite of the software development spectrum from where C++ shines.

I thought they invented Go for these things?

Re: Overview: What are Cpp2 and cppfront? How do I get and build cppfront?

#173

Post by kiitos » Mon, Apr 08, 2024, 1:26 AM UTC

mgaunard wrote: post #129

dale_glass wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's barely a point in making a better C++ if you're not going to address one of the most obvious footguns.

The main iteration this cycle for the next C++ is contracts. Contracts are all about introducing undefined behaviour if you don't satisfy a precondition. In practice this improves software quality on many levels by clearly defining requirements on interface boundaries that would otherwise be implicit or just documented. Of course you can have special debug modes where you actually check that contracts are being satis…

You think you've heard it all, but then someone says that introducing undefined behavior improves software quality, and just wow, man, I don't know.

Re: Overview: What are Cpp2 and cppfront? How do I get and build cppfront?

#174

Post by ynx » Mon, Apr 08, 2024, 9:03 PM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #160

Kranar wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure what is meant by this statement. Both cpp2 and Carbon are different languages, neither of them claim to be just C++. Both languages will have bidirectional compatibility with C++ so that code written in C++ can be directly accessed from Carbon and code written in Carbon can be directly accessed from C++. Neither of them use an FFI for compatibility.

Not really, Herb Sutter tries to sell cpp2 as "Typescript for C++", or "Kotlin for C++", while ignoring that Typescript doesn't add anything to JavaScript besides types, they did some mistakes on the early days not following up on this, but backtracked and now Typescript is basically a linter/transpiler. Whereas while Kotlin used the Java ecosystem to bootstrap itself, it is clear that by now JetBrains rather wants t…

Objective-C++ does exist, so their paths didn't diverge so much that they didn't remain in each others' ecosystems on a permanent basis (on Apple, which is the only place both regularly intersected)