Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why is it so hard to build an airport?

construction-physics.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 574 posts

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#171

Post by bn-usd-mistake »

patwolf wrote: post #95
bambax wrote: post #81

There's this classic French movie from the 70s, "Nous irons tous au paradis", where a group of friends buy a house really cheap. They can't believe their luck until they realize the house is next to an international airport (they visited the house when the air traffic controllers were on strike). Here's the scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2aFksnIghQ It's a little bit absurd of course that they didn't bother t…

I live about 5 miles from an airport. It never occurred to me when I bought the house that there'd be airplane noise, but we happen to be right in the flight path. They're infrequent enough that I didn't hear any while touring the house. The house is well-insulated, so the noise isn't bad while inside. But while outside, it's loud enough that you have to pause a conversation when a plane goes by.

It was the same for me in my previous apartment. I remember we were even amazed on how closely a plane was flying above the highway shortly before we took the exit towards the apartment when initially visiting, but didn't make the connection to how that would affect the apartment.

In the end, it wasn't a big problem, we got used to it quickly.

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#172

Post by backpackviolet »

pbsladek wrote: post #113
po wrote: post #30

If you fly into Tokyo you might come in via Narita Airport (NRT) which is actually quite a distance out from tokyo. Violence is extremely uncommon in modern Japan but NRT was the site of violent resistance over several decades. Opposition forces killed several police officers, rioted on several occasions and constructed a giant 200 ft tower to interfere with test flights. Hundreds of acts of vandalism have occurred o…

If flying into NRT and on the way to Tokyo, ~$200ish for the taxi ride. Ooops.

In addition to the fantastic trains the other commenters mentioned, you could also take a bus for $20 to any major hub or hotel.

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#173

Post by rconti »

ghaff wrote: post #124
bombcar wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, I meant that putting the airport farther from the mountains means the planes can take off heading west without circling around. I don't know if it's that far, however.

Stapleton was still east of Denver. I think the siting of DIA was probably more that there was a bunch of flat relatively empty land even further east. It's been a while since I flew into Denver but my recollection is the airport is pretty hell and gone from the city.

Stapleton is now "in Denver". I had never been to Denver until a few years ago, and was out for a run with a running club based out of a sports store in a strip mall in Denver proper. I asked what the control tower was for, and someone said they used it for training, which made sense. It wasn't until later on that I realized it was the OLD Stapleton control tower! Right in town! Surrounded by stores and condos and a park.

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#174

Post by alt227 »

ZanyProgrammer wrote: post #109
class3shock wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on what? It got hammered in covid but is back in a big way now.

general aviation, small airports have been closing down for years. It’s not a growing hobby.

So by general aviation, you mean flying lessons?

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#175

Post by joncrocks »

ryandrake wrote: post #88
bradley13 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, this is classic NIMBYism. I understand: we live in a very quiet area, and would certainly oppose something that would dramatically change that. However, what I do not understand are the people who move next to an existing airport, and then complain about the noise. We used to live near a major, international airport. Planes flew overhead. That noise was implicitly factored into the price we paid, and we certain…

This is called “coming to the nuisance”[1] and in most jurisdictions the complainers have no case. I’m sure it doesn’t stop them from trying though. Reid-Hillview airport[2] in San Jose has been there since the 1930’s, long before anyone who currently lives there, yet is constantly under attack by residents and threatened with closing. 1: https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/coming_to_the_nuisance 2: https://en.m.wikipedi…

How many planes were taking off in 1930 vs. today?

If you bought a residence in 1930, are you never allowed to complain?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog#As_metaphor

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#176

Post by spacecadet »

jgeada wrote: post #169

> Most NIMBY difficulties stem from the asymmetric nature of the costs and benefits of a new project: a new apartment building, for instance, will benefit a city overall (slightly lowering housing costs and slightly increasing the size of the city’s labor market), but those benefits are diffuse. The costs, on the other hand – traffic, parking, construction disruption – will be borne almost entirely by the surrounding…

NIMBY is not rational! Its a biased selfish decision that protects ones own, shrouded in "community" -- Except I'm directly involved with my community and none of the loud talking NIMBY's ever show up... GET LOST.

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#177

Post by JohnMakin »

Good article but it's many thousands of words with one simple answer: noise pollution.

I lived directly under the path of an airport's takeoff vector. Planes would frequently take off just a few hundred feet above my house. You actually get used to it, but as I've gotten older my hearing loss is more than it should be and I suspect that was a major reason.

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#178

Post by patch_cable »

yadaeno wrote: post #144
subzidion wrote: post #52

There's been discussions where the "next" airport should go in the Seattle region, and the consensus is that nobody wants it. The State Legislature created a commission to try and identify some potential sites, but the public backlash was so great that they ended up submitting it's final report with no actual recommendation. One of the interesting ideas (that was proposed even back when SEA was adding it's third runw…

Paine Field is about 35 mins away from Seattle and serves airline traffic as of a few years ago.

And it is so much better I routinely pay hundreds more to fly out of Paine Field.

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#179

Post by stdbrouw »

jgeada wrote: post #169

> Most NIMBY difficulties stem from the asymmetric nature of the costs and benefits of a new project: a new apartment building, for instance, will benefit a city overall (slightly lowering housing costs and slightly increasing the size of the city’s labor market), but those benefits are diffuse. The costs, on the other hand – traffic, parking, construction disruption – will be borne almost entirely by the surrounding…

Or the other way around: as a tax with a Georgist flavor. If your land has a value of $x/m^2 when free of zoning restrictions, but your neighborhood really wants to keep it free of noise / traffic / high buildings or high density, and as a consequence land value drops to $y/m^2, that is perfectly fine but it will cost you $x - $y each year.

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#180

Post by londons_explore »

vel0city wrote: post #148
sofixa wrote: post #126

> And an airport can’t be too far from a city and remain useful, since travelers need to access the city, workers need to be within commuting distance, and so on. In Canada, Mirabel airport was built 35 miles from Montreal, surrounded by a 79,000 acre buffer zone to prevent any issues of incompatible land use. Mirabel was expected to replace Dorval (today Montreal-Trudeau) as Canada’s main eastern airport, but, in pa…

That sounds like exceptionally poor planning. Just to confirm, the new airport served pretty much only international flights? It should have been the nexus for domestic travel to connect to the big hop to Europe, meaning it should have had a ton of domestic routes as well feeding it.

"exceptionally poor planning" is common in big projects like this.

As soon as the design/planning teams gets big enough that there are many people who barely know eachother, they start competing to the detriment of the whole...

Nobody wants their part late/over budget, so they do things to screw other parts of the project just so their part isn't late or over budget.

Post reply on HN