Earlier quoted context omitted.
You can get a cheap used mac. You're just being silly now.
Cheap for first world wages.
Not like PCs grow on trees.
This is getting silly.
Home Screen Advantage
171–180 of 230 posts
Re: Home Screen Advantage
#172Earlier quoted context omitted.
Most of the people on this site have either worked for Apple before or hold Apple stock. Regulation is directly reaching into their pockets. Also obvious by how this post is already on 14th place after 2 hours, with more than 200 votes. (Edit: now 31, 3 hours in)
> Most of the people on this site have either worked for Apple before or hold Apple stock Is this supposed to be a joke? _Most_, so over 50% of the people on HN work/worked for Apple or hold Apple stock? That’s absurd.
Agreed
Re: Home Screen Advantage
#173The number of apologists and distractors in this comments section honestly makes me feel like it's been brigaded. I'm amazed, given how well informed this crowd typically is. As for the topic being discussed - Apple have gone out of their way for the last _decade_ to avoid implementing things like ServiceWorkers properly. I remember having this same conversation back in 2015. It is a real shame, as things like the pr…
HN as a general crowd is pretty poorly informed. It does attract the odd subject matter expert on some topics but I feel like half the comments I read on any subject are really off the mark, which I am sure mine are too
Re: Home Screen Advantage
#174Earlier quoted context omitted.
Months. I have one on my phone that I haven't reinstalled for months. And I do this on my wife's phone, and let me tell you the wife acceptance factor of the app breaking after a week would be absolutely zero. I don't know where you get these rumors from honestly.
With a free account? I’ve heard many, many times that free accounts have a short expiry. I thought it was seven days, and I’ve just checked, and I remembered the duration correctly. I can’t find an official source, but people mention this limit practically everywhere the topic is discussed. Here’s one reference, Google can help you find many, many more: https://stackoverflow.com/a/73014888/8427 > Without Official App…
Aha, yea ok. That's gotta be it. My bad. I do have paid account, since I have apps in the store and you have to pay that fee every year to keep that up (which is annoying for my free hobby apps!)
Re: Home Screen Advantage
#175Earlier quoted context omitted.
I do, but unless you think Apple’s hundreds of billions in hardware revenue is some kind of loss leader, it’s irrelevant. Apple are a hardware company. It’s bizarre that you are trying to argue otherwise. They make more money from selling consumer hardware than practically every other company in the world.
> Apple are a hardware company. It’s bizarre that you are trying to argue otherwise. They make more money from selling consumer hardware than practically every other company in the world. You are definitely correct in that Apple are a hardware company. However (and I think this is the point of disagreement) much of their revenue growth (and presumably profits, but that's harder to assess) comes from services, and fro…
> I think this is the point of disagreement
I appreciate you trying to steel-man their argument, but you’ve gone far enough that it doesn’t reflect what they were actually saying. The thing I’m disagreeing with is:
> Apple's no longer a hardware company
There’s no way to spin that into anything resembling reality. If they had said what you are saying, I wouldn’t have objected.
> my favourite was destroying the business model of their competitors using ATT and then refusing to declare their own ad business ATT compliant
It doesn’t really make sense to do so. Apple aren’t an unseen third-party; the user has explicitly chosen to use their products and services. Why would ATT apply here?
Re: Home Screen Advantage
#176Earlier quoted context omitted.
Many many apps are made with JS, HTML and CSS and run in a thin wrapper on top of WKWebView (Cordova, nowadays Capacitor). It is Electron sans a browser engine and has been around forever. Support for PWAs don't change a thing about how apps are developed at all. They only change how apps are deployed. Hence, your whole point about "better quality apps by banning PWAs" is completely wrong.
> Many many apps are made with JS, HTML and CSS and run in a thin wrapper on top of WKWebView (Cordova, nowadays Capacitor). It is Electron sans a browser engine and has been around forever. I know, I already covered all that. > They only change how apps are deployed. Hence, your whole point about "better quality apps by banning PWAs" is completely wrong. I didn't say banning PWAs will result in better quality apps i…
Fair enough. Regarding (3): The alternative to Electron-Cordova-Wrapper-JS apps is not "native app" but "no app at all". Most people think about flashy apps that probably should be native. You mentioned Slack. But many apps are just stuff that don't have to be an app in the first place, like apps for specific hotels, bus tickets in a local city, app for the local library etc.
These (web) apps as PWAs would offer a better interface and more capabilities than a pure in-browser web app, but they lack the resources to provide a truly native app.
Banning PWAs doesn't encourage native apps, but even shittier web apps. I'd bet 90% of web apps wrapped in Cordova are there only because they need a) local storage and b) push notifications.
Re: Home Screen Advantage
#177I feel like something that gets brushed off on HN all the time is: Do people actually want PWAs? In my experience the answer is a resounding “NO”. Android supports PWAs but they aren’t taking the world by storm. My Android friends don’t use any that I’m aware of and if you ask them about it they just get a blank look on the faces. Heck, businesses don’t care about PWAs or websites even. I work in this space, I’ve wri…
I want PWAs in instances where the alternative is no app or no feature at all. For instance I use Firefox in iOS but it’s massively crippled (no extension support) thanks to Apple being shitheads. If the only option to have extension support is with PWA then I 100% want PWA
Re: Home Screen Advantage
#178Earlier quoted context omitted.
If Safari supported extensions then you'd have the ability to resolve this by installing something like Readability. If iOS supported other browsers then you could read it in a Chromium based browser, where it appears completely readable.
Safari does support extensions. And it has built-in Reader mode. And it needs none of that for this case since the website loads perfectly fine with no zigzagging required. What Apple is doing sucks, for sure, but let’s not lose sight of reality and make stuff up or misinform people.
Show me how to get ublock origin on safari in iOS.
You can’t, and this is basically the top extension anyone wants, and so your blanket statement is also misinforming
Re: Home Screen Advantage
#179Its honestly a fantastic feat of marketing that JavaScript apps outside the browser are still referred to as web apps.
They’re not Javascript apps though. They’re HTML with Javascript over HTTPS, rendered by a browser engine and… oh wait, that’s a website.
Yes, it's only an app if it's approved in the Cupertino region of California. Anything else is a sparkling website.
Re: Home Screen Advantage
#180Earlier quoted context omitted.
> there certainly were no free cloud build servers for iOS since relatively recently. There definitely were. Bitrise had a free plan back in 2014 and they weren’t the only ones. https://web.archive.org/web/20141103031325/http://www.bitris... Are you an iOS developer? Because you are repeatedly taking what is considered run of the mill by iOS developers as if it were some outlandish concept you’ve never heard of befor…
You're either being utterly blinded, or dishonest. I'll stop engaging with you. For the record, however: NOBODY DEVELOPS iOS APPS BY ONLY BUILDING IN THE CLOUD. NEITHER PROFESSIONALS NOR HOBBYISTS. NOBODY ON EARTH. Every iOS developer has a mac, because it's impossible to develop when you can only build 200 times per month (per your link). Yes, professional developers run some CI in the cloud, nobody cares.
Neither. I think we’ve been talking at cross-purposes. This was the start of the thread:
> It's just nonsensical to use a device that dictates what you can install on it. Well, Androids don't come with root permissions either ( you should be able to get it easily if you want imo ) but at least you can install any app, even just create your own.
I’m approaching this in the context of side loading (the “you can install any app” part). Other people in the thread have as well:
> If we're getting technical you don't need to jailbreak to sideload on iOS either. AltStore automates the tedium but you can side load just fine on iOS too (for now).
In case you are unaware, it’s somewhat popular to register Apple developer accounts to build and run apps that aren’t on the App Store. That’s what AltStore is all about.
If you don’t have a Mac, you can use a build server for this. Build servers are incredibly common and have been for many years. They haven’t just popped up in the last couple of years.
I see now that you aren’t talking about this at all; you are talking about developing apps. In that context, I agree. You wouldn’t normally use a service like that as a substitute for a development machine (although a very small number of people do actually do this!). But I wasn’t talking about that. I was talking about the side loading case.
Nevertheless, you don’t need “a multithousand dollar apple machine” at all, even for development. I believe the cheapest machine you can buy from Apple brand new that lets you develop and submit an app to the App Store is the 9th gen iPad at 329 USD. Or, if you insist upon a computer, the Mac mini at 599 USD. And of course you don’t have to buy new, so the actual cost of the machine you need is significantly lower than that.