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Stop postponing things by embracing the mess

deprocrastination.co

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Re: Stop postponing things by embracing the mess

#171

Post by adadadadadad »

projektfu wrote: post #74
adadadadadad wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read the diagnostic criteria that is used, it’s so broad it could easily apply to most of the world’s population…as long as they declare they have trouble focusing.

I disagree. I think that 6 months or more of 5/9 symptoms of inattentiveness or 5/9 symptoms of hyperactivity, persistently, does not represent most of the world. (And excluding: "The symptoms are not solely a manifestation of oppositional behavior, defiance, hostility, or failure to understand tasks or instructions." 6/9 symptoms are required to diagnose children) [0] Indeed, surveys show that it's probably under 10…

If you look into how the criteria is chosen its very arbitrary. And this descriptive diagnosis where you pick from list A and B is extremely bizarre from a common sense standpoint. And there is no brain imaging or genetic markers available.

> The number of criteria required for a diagnosis of ADHD has been set arbitrarily in DSM-5. No scientific justification has been presented nor method used for deciding how many criteria should be required

> https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fsoc.2022.81476...

and...

> For the case of ADHD specifically, this is translated to: “if an individual has attention deficit hyperactivity disorder it is because he is inattentive, disorganized and hyperactive-impulsive, and if an individual is inattentive, disorganized and hyperactive-impulsive it is because he has ADHD.

> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9871920/

It's important to be aware that each percentage point is hundreds of millions of dollars.

Re: Stop postponing things by embracing the mess

#172

Post by adadadadadad »

_yb2s wrote: post #140
T_MacThrowFace wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you ever get diagnosed as having ADHD though, then every doctor will forever pretend that they know for a 100% fact that your ADHD is caused by mutated dopamine receptors, while having done no testing of course; why would they when you have already been diagnosed

That is pretty silly, and a misunderstanding of the research. All of the mutations in dopamine transport associated with ADHD are pretty weakly associated, and still very common in the non-ADHD population.

You are actually making the case that ADHD doesn't exist or is pretty meaningless.

There is no scientific basis for it, it was a bunch of criteria that were arbitrarily chosen to create a term called "ADHD" so that they can prescribe meds.

You just have to ask the question as to why we can't give meds to everyone when 25% of college students report using them. Why can't we give meds to someone addicted to social media as a fix?

Everything is premised on it being a neurodevelopmental brain defect from birth...so that meds can be effective. But there is no basis for this.

You might as well just give anyone who doesn't get good marks at school or doesn't perform at work meds. In fact people want to do this.

Good read: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fsoc.2022.81476...

Re: Stop postponing things by embracing the mess

#173

Post by slater »

adadadadadad wrote: post #170
troad wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this take based on any medical evidence? I note you're casting your take as contrary to a 'lot of ADHD advice', but it's not clear to me whether you're implying that (a) a lot of popular ADHD advice is scientifically unsound and your advice is more in line with the science, or whether you're saying that (b) both the ADHD advice and the science it is based on is wrong, but your take is right. Edit: Saw some of your…

"ADHD" is pseudo-science in my opinion. The impairment to life is certainly real. But the cause is unproven, and for ADHD and the medication, it must be present since birth...a brain defect...but we live in an incredibly distracting environment due to social media and all the societal change coupled with that. > For the case of ADHD specifically, this is translated to: “if an individual has attention deficit hyperact…

> "ADHD" is pseudo-science in my opinion.

Cool opinion!

> The impairment to life is certainly real

Ditto!

> But the cause is unproven

It's very much not so.

Re: Stop postponing things by embracing the mess

#174

Post by adadadadadad »

LoganDark wrote: post #137
_yb2s wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree with your point, but you are misusing the term and misunderstanding what it means when it is applied to neurodevelopmental disorders like autism and ADHD.

ADHD the diagnosis is a set of symptoms. These individual symptoms may be present to varying degrees in different people. The fact that it varies means that ADHD is a spectrum. That's not misuse or misunderstanding, and it agrees with your original comment. I'm simply clarifying what I meant because it's not just "everyone has different specialties". It's that specific problems that can contribute to ADHD can be pres…

> ADHD the diagnosis is a set of symptoms.

ADHD is the set of symptoms. The only reason people care about the term is because you can access drugs.

> “The child often has difficulty sustaining attention in tasks or play activities because she has ADHD and she has ADHD because she does not sustain her attention in tasks or play activities.” As Pérez-Álvarez (2017, p. 2) notes “the symptoms are the guarantee of the diagnostic category, which in turn is invoked to explain the symptoms in an endless loop.”

> https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fsoc.2022.81476...

Re: Stop postponing things by embracing the mess

#175

Post by adadadadadad »

adadadadadad wrote: post #170
troad wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this take based on any medical evidence? I note you're casting your take as contrary to a 'lot of ADHD advice', but it's not clear to me whether you're implying that (a) a lot of popular ADHD advice is scientifically unsound and your advice is more in line with the science, or whether you're saying that (b) both the ADHD advice and the science it is based on is wrong, but your take is right. Edit: Saw some of your…

"ADHD" is pseudo-science in my opinion. The impairment to life is certainly real. But the cause is unproven, and for ADHD and the medication, it must be present since birth...a brain defect...but we live in an incredibly distracting environment due to social media and all the societal change coupled with that. > For the case of ADHD specifically, this is translated to: “if an individual has attention deficit hyperact…

Give this a read: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fsoc.2022.81476...

> Quasi-Scientific Basis of ADHD in DSM-5

Re: Stop postponing things by embracing the mess

#176

Post by adadadadadad »

_yb2s wrote: post #123
masto wrote: post #12

The oversimplification and promises that if you just buy their thing you'll have a distraction free life in 14 days really irks me. I struggled with this stuff for over 40 years. Only last year, after a disastrous crash, did I start learning about ADHD, which finally gave me the language and tools and access to support that I needed to start making a meaningful difference. Without the understanding that diagnosis gav…

I could have written this... I've spent thousands on productivity and organization courses, and put a lot of effort into them, only to find myself unable to follow the system, for reasons I don't understand. My whole life I've suffered from massive guilt, shame, and stress over not getting things done that were really important to me, and nobody understanding. "Clearly it's not important to you, or you would just do…

How does exercise affect a child with ADHD?

I always see these portrayals of ADHD children being hyperactive and just think: what if you just made them run outside for a while...surely they can't have never-ending energy and eventually tired themselves out.

And after this period of exertion, when they rest, do they then just instantly revert back to 100% hyperactivity?

Re: Stop postponing things by embracing the mess

#177

Post by patrick451 »

masto wrote: post #12

The oversimplification and promises that if you just buy their thing you'll have a distraction free life in 14 days really irks me. I struggled with this stuff for over 40 years. Only last year, after a disastrous crash, did I start learning about ADHD, which finally gave me the language and tools and access to support that I needed to start making a meaningful difference. Without the understanding that diagnosis gav…

It really irks me how every post on HN about productivity gets derailed by some solipsistic person with ADHD. All resources aren't for all people.

Re: Stop postponing things by embracing the mess

#178

Post by riehwvfbk »

adadadadadad wrote: post #170
troad wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this take based on any medical evidence? I note you're casting your take as contrary to a 'lot of ADHD advice', but it's not clear to me whether you're implying that (a) a lot of popular ADHD advice is scientifically unsound and your advice is more in line with the science, or whether you're saying that (b) both the ADHD advice and the science it is based on is wrong, but your take is right. Edit: Saw some of your…

"ADHD" is pseudo-science in my opinion. The impairment to life is certainly real. But the cause is unproven, and for ADHD and the medication, it must be present since birth...a brain defect...but we live in an incredibly distracting environment due to social media and all the societal change coupled with that. > For the case of ADHD specifically, this is translated to: “if an individual has attention deficit hyperact…

Well, yeah: the lack of motivation is the problem. But here's the thing: just like a depressed person can't just "snap out of it", someone with ADHD cannot just make themselves get the motivation. Why? Because we can't remember that we need to. ADHD is primarily a working memory impairment.

All brains have an autopilot mode, and an ADHD brain on autopilot thinks thousands of thoughts at once. When I am not medicated I can be cooking, having an imaginary conversation about politics, planning the weekend, and listening to a song playing in my head - all at the same time, and doing all of the above badly. When I am medicated I do the same thing, but after 10 or so minutes a thought pops into my head: hey, you are distracted, focus! Without meds this thought may take an hour or two to arrive.

A deadline seems to raise the baseline of executive brain activity for a similar effect to the medication, but it's not guaranteed. Now try explaining to a boss who doesn't believe that ADHD is a thing why your performance is inconsistent. Don't you care about deadlines? I do, but I can forget that a deadline is a thing that exists in this universe.

OK, you'll say, just build routines. Discipline. Of course - I couldn't survive without routines. The trouble is: I forget I have a routine when my brain is in that fuzzy state. I can get to work, not know what my tasks are for the day, and start daydreaming. Why not just look at JIRA? Because in that state I don't remember that such as thing as JIRA exists in this universe. I actually have an alarm in my phone that tells me to check JIRA around the time I get to the office. I rarely forget, but when I do - the failure is epic.

Re: Stop postponing things by embracing the mess

#179

Post by littlelady »

adadadadadad wrote: post #151
notjoemama wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the non-ADHD spouse I definitely understand this but it leaves us both scratching our heads when problem solving ADHD related things. I simply can’t comprehend what it’s like and nothing that works for me works for her. Mostly I just try to focus on myself and my needs (which has limits in our relationship). I can’t offer anyone advice except sometimes loving someone else is a choice you make for you, especially w…

They need deadlines where they feel shame if they fail. And they will do anything to avoid having them. To provide the necessary structure and disciplining as a partner is next to impossible in a relationship of equals. They need some external force to exert pressure, which is usually a strict boss and job, but usually they will just leave their job if the income is not needed. A lot of ADHD advice promotes being mor…

I cannot overstate how odious I find opinion. Yes, people with ADHD need structure and accountability. But they don't need more shame or punishment.

Shame is malignant. It is an unproductive feeling that hinders people from seeking out accommodations that would help them.

This idea of punitively shaming people with ADHD is doubly asinine, because people with ADHD often suffer from rejection sensitivity dysphoria[1], which already can make them sensitive to embarrassment and prone to having low self-esteem. Emotional dysregulation[2], another "fun" part of having ADHD makes it hard to recover from the experienced rejection.

Some research is more focused on self-regulating aspects of ADHD, as opposed to relying solely on medication[3]. This source is focused on pediatrics, but self-regulating therapies exists for adults, e.g. DBT.

[1]: https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/24099-rejecti...

[2]: https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/symptoms/25065-emotion...

[3]: https://www.cdc.uci.edu/research/

Re: Stop postponing things by embracing the mess

#180

Post by LoganDark »

adadadadadad wrote: post #174
LoganDark wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ADHD the diagnosis is a set of symptoms. These individual symptoms may be present to varying degrees in different people. The fact that it varies means that ADHD is a spectrum. That's not misuse or misunderstanding, and it agrees with your original comment. I'm simply clarifying what I meant because it's not just "everyone has different specialties". It's that specific problems that can contribute to ADHD can be pres…

> ADHD the diagnosis is a set of symptoms. ADHD is the set of symptoms. The only reason people care about the term is because you can access drugs. > “The child often has difficulty sustaining attention in tasks or play activities because she has ADHD and she has ADHD because she does not sustain her attention in tasks or play activities.” As Pérez-Álvarez (2017, p. 2) notes “the symptoms are the guarantee of the dia…

> ADHD is the set of symptoms.

The formal diagnosis of ADHD, which is what I was referring to, is based on the presence of a certain set of symptoms defined by the DSM-V or ICD-11.

ADHD itself, which the diagnosis aims to identify, is not the set of symptoms itself but rather the root cause of the symptoms. The symptoms point to the presence of some root cause which is ADHD.

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