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PWAs wont replace native iOS apps

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Re: PWAs wont replace native iOS apps

#171

Post by CharlesW »

SirMaster wrote: post #155
CharlesW wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be conflating "PWA" with the Safari + Home Screen integration that allowed users to add a web[site|app] (PWA or not) to the iOS Home Screen. Apple had to remove this to comply with the DMA. It's now the responsibility of alternative browser engine vendors to integrate with Shortcuts so that you can add PWAs and other web[sites|apps] to the Home Screen using your browser engine of choice. The additional be…

What are you talking about? With iOS 17.4 in the EU, you can no longer make a web app (PWA) that uses a full screen window with no browser ui controls. No longer use local storage for the web app's data, and no longer send push notifications and show badges on the home screen icon for web apps. Third party browsers can't add this functionality back. How do you expect them to make push notifications work with PWAs?

> With iOS 17.4 in the EU, you can no longer make a web app (PWA) that uses a full screen window with no browser ui controls.

Are you sure? Go to https://sindresorhus.com/screenfull/, tap "Request", and you should see a full-screen website. Any [website|webapp|PWA] can do this with Safari. (Screenshot: https://imgur.com/a/CTWFPol) Third-party browsers using their own browser engines can do whatever they like.

> How do you expect them to make push notifications work with PWAs?

Third-party browsers using their own browser engine will have to create their own support for web notifications, just as Apple does for Safari. Presumably, they'll leverage the same infrastructure they use on non-iOS platforms.

Re: PWAs wont replace native iOS apps

#172

Post by paulddraper »

palata wrote: post #141
paulddraper wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not that hard to learn how to do native iOS dev Brb gotta go get a whole new computer

Well if you develop an Android PWA without having a single Android device to test it on, then maybe you should not develop an Android app at all. Same applies for iOS.

1. Android emulators exist.

2. It's not crazy to require a ___ device to develop ___ apps. But are you honestly claiming you can develop iPhone apps with an iPhone?

Re: PWAs wont replace native iOS apps

#173

Post by Molomby »

Side note but, man, I hate it when write ups like this refer to events in relative terms without including a published date...

> Last month [...]

> At the same time [...]

> That was over 6 months ago [...]

From when?!? What good is a relative timeline of events and your "current" thinking without a timestamp?

Digging though the source, it looks like this is from a few days ago.. "created_at":"2024-02-14T01:45:45.254Z"

/rant

Re: PWAs wont replace native iOS apps

#174

Post by elevatedastalt »

paulddraper wrote: post #130
BobaFloutist wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You value real-estate on your home screen less than in your bookmarks?

It's a spectrum. Some things are important enough for a bookmark, others are important enough for home screen.

It just feels a bit of an edgecase to imagine that a menu of a specific restaurant is important enough to occupy a spot in the top 20-25 of your digital real estate.

Re: PWAs wont replace native iOS apps

#175

Post by andix »

threeseed wrote: post #84
andix wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks like Apple found a loop hole. I don’t think this loop hole will stay open for long. Edit: I really think that we will soon get an addendum to this law that will limit those fees. In a similar way mobile phone roaming fees got regulated.

There is no loop hole. Apple is able to charge a per-sale license fee for using their SDKs same as Epic, Microsoft etc. There isn't a single court or government in the world who has disagreed with this.

I think you're completely missing the point.

The problem is not access to the SDK, the problem is that Apple is locking down their platform to competitors. They can't sell apps or content without giving a commission to the "gate keeper" Apple.

Epic is not one of the biggest device manufacturers. And Microsoft is definitively not locking out third party developers from Windows. Everyone can just sell Windows applications without paying Microsoft a dime. Windows is even fully open to PWAs, with the Edge browser from Microsoft or any other third party browser.

Re: PWAs wont replace native iOS apps

#177

Post by paulddraper »

elevatedastalt wrote: post #174
paulddraper wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a spectrum. Some things are important enough for a bookmark, others are important enough for home screen.

It just feels a bit of an edgecase to imagine that a menu of a specific restaurant is important enough to occupy a spot in the top 20-25 of your digital real estate.

What about a movie theater?

Re: PWAs wont replace native iOS apps

#178

Post by andix »

burnerthrow008 wrote: post #89
andix wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks like Apple found a loop hole. I don’t think this loop hole will stay open for long. Edit: I really think that we will soon get an addendum to this law that will limit those fees. In a similar way mobile phone roaming fees got regulated.

In response to your edit: I doubt it. 1. Remember, the EC feels that American tech companies are unfairly stifling competition from European tech companies. They’re not going to just wholesale ban monetization of intellectual property, which is what banning the core technology fee would do—that’s not a useful precedent if you’re trying to boost the euro tech scene. 2. It really feels like most of the arguments agains…

What the EC wants is more or less what you get with Windows, macOS or Android. Being able to install apps from any source and being able to buy apps from any app store/vendor without them being forced to pay commission/fees to Apple.

It doesn't have any connection to "monetization of intellectual property", just look at Windows, Android, macOS, and all other operating systems.

iOS can stay closed source, Apple can keep selling it to customers (on their iPhones), Apple might even stop providing SDKs at all and stop allowing third party apps on their phones. But they shouldn't be able to be a "gate keeper" and charge commission to third parties releasing apps/content on their platform. Because this is killing competition and free markets.

I understand there are implications for opening iOS to other app stores.

Re: PWAs wont replace native iOS apps

#179

Post by fiddlerwoaroof »

wkat4242 wrote: post #105
moooo99 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it though? A large portion of apps on the mobile app stores are already built using cross-platform technologies like React Native, Ionic or Flutter. In some instances it is very easy to tell, in other it's not. You can create quality experiences using cross-platform, you can create awful experiences using native tooling. In many instances, I'd rather have the not totally native app that exists than the absolutely…

One good thing about PWAs is that they run inside a browser. So if that's a good browser like firefox, you can use addons to limit tracking. Or force dark mode even for apps that don't bother implementing it (eg the Amazon shopping app) with dark reader.

This is exactly what I dislike about PWAs: the move to sandboxing everything in the browser is a big step back because the browser silos everything in a non-composable way.

Re: PWAs wont replace native iOS apps

#180

Post by DANmode »

CharlesW wrote: post #161
DANmode wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple had to remove this to comply with the DMA. This has yet to be made clear to me. Could you attempt to convince us?

The DMA requires that Apple not favor Safari. A direct integration between Safari and Home Screen favors Safari, and so is not allowed under the DMA.

So...they're tearing out all OS features that favor Safari?

or just the features they're motivated not to offer a path to using for other publishers?

(Like, webapp support)

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