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Over the edge: The use of design tactics to undermine browser choice

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Re: Over the edge: The use of design tactics to undermine browser choice

#171

Post by 6c696e7578 »

user234683 wrote: post #165
6c696e7578 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably seems weird to you, but I've never got on with the Windows UI. There's too many things that steal focus. I've been XFCE for too many years now, but it doesn't change significantly that I find I have to invest time learning what's changed. There used to be a 'tile windows' since windows 2.0 or something like that, but it did just that, splatted the windows to take up all the space. One thing I like about X11…

I rarely get focus stolen on Windows 10. They now make it very difficult for applications to do this (see the allowed conditions here: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/api/winuser/... ). In contrast, focus stealing is a way of life on XFCE, and I just have to put up with it. The settings they recommend to fix it don't actually help.

Really? There's two programs I know of that will take focus and they're both authentication prompts. The sort of thing that cranks my handle on Windows were mostly from the browser and almost anything else.

With XFCE though, I'm quite happy with the level of focus stealing, things that seem to be justifiable are at the right level, like authentication prompts.

Out of interest, what are the things that take focus for you? Maybe we're running totally different sets of programs which might give me an impression that isn't warranted.

Re: Over the edge: The use of design tactics to undermine browser choice

#174

Post by RajT88 »

bmitc wrote: post #173

What's sad is that it's a good browser behind all of this. But it takes a fair amount of work getting all the settings right to turn it all off.

Agreed.

One of the most egregious things is the insistence on using the Bing start page. You have to install an extension to have your own start page (in fairness most browsers are like this these days).

However, lately Edge just magically stopped letting new tab redirect work. At least it loads a blank page, but it is annoying. Microsoft seems hell bent on preventing user control all over their client ecosystem. The same extension works fine in Brave and Chrome - so it is definitely something they did.

Re: Over the edge: The use of design tactics to undermine browser choice

#175

Post by inquirerGeneral »

p0nce wrote: post #77
YPPH wrote: post #26

Windows just keeps getting weirder. There's this regrettable dichotomy between (1) a rock solid OS core with great features like Hyper-V, PowerShell and exceptional back-compat, and (2) a crap, sluggish, inconsistent UI slapped on top, laden with ads, "Rewards" Points and tracking.

I don't know, Windows 11 came with many things I've wanted for years: - notepad with tabs - shell UI with tabs, VT-100 support and ability to replace the shell - Paint.net with AI - even Windbg has massively improved

[dead]

Re: Over the edge: The use of design tactics to undermine browser choice

#176

Post by bmitc »

RajT88 wrote: post #174
bmitc wrote: post #173

What's sad is that it's a good browser behind all of this. But it takes a fair amount of work getting all the settings right to turn it all off.

Agreed. One of the most egregious things is the insistence on using the Bing start page. You have to install an extension to have your own start page (in fairness most browsers are like this these days). However, lately Edge just magically stopped letting new tab redirect work. At least it loads a blank page, but it is annoying. Microsoft seems hell bent on preventing user control all over their client ecosystem. The…

Yea, and when the browser updates they often switch settings back, such as the default search engine.

I still use it but am aggressive about tightening up the settings.

Re: Over the edge: The use of design tactics to undermine browser choice

#178

Post by jqpabc123 »

KingOfCoders wrote: post #114
jqpabc123 wrote: post #106

Mozilla took aim ... and wiffed ... big time. Edge hasn't displaced Firefox, Chrome has. But they have about 600 million ($) reasons to avoid pointing this out. Let's face the facts --- Mozilla is Google's bitch and has been for a long time. And this is just the latest example.

600 million ($)? They've got ~$6000 (?) million from Google over the years. In a total distortion of reality Edge is the downfall of Firefox, not the reason they spent $6000M for 3% market share because they made every mistake they could make. Everyone else would be belly up already, but $600M/year makes it hard to die. The fact that new browsers are popping up left and right (like Floorp) should tell Mozilla there s…

...there seems to be demand for something that isn't FF.

There is a demand for something that is really privacy focused.

In other words, something that isn't directly connected to Google with a blatantly obvious conflict of interest.

Re: Over the edge: The use of design tactics to undermine browser choice

#179

Post by ta8903 »

epolanski wrote: post #39
YPPH wrote: post #26

Windows just keeps getting weirder. There's this regrettable dichotomy between (1) a rock solid OS core with great features like Hyper-V, PowerShell and exceptional back-compat, and (2) a crap, sluggish, inconsistent UI slapped on top, laden with ads, "Rewards" Points and tracking.

WSL2, power toys and hands down the best window management of any OS, I hate working on my MBP just due to the difficulty of managing different windows and aligning them on the same desktop.

>hands down the best window management of any OS

Huh? You can't even snap windows to screen edges.

Re: Over the edge: The use of design tactics to undermine browser choice

#180

Post by pyrophane »

I've been trying Edge lately because I wanted to see if its "efficiency mode" would produce any noticeable difference in the battery life I experienced on my laptop.

They've really made it almost impossible to use as a privacy-respecting browser that lets you pick your search engine. There are a very large number of "on by default" settings that I had to change to turn of things like "Microsoft Rewards" and "creator recommendations."

The default search engine selection in buried in the settings under "address bar search." Even after you change that there is still an un-changeable page that comes up on new tabs that searches with Bing / Copilot, and other various ways to trigger a search that use Microsoft's search engine no matter what.

Also, whatever search engine you use, Edge will send your seaches to MS unless you turn off another "on by default" option.

And then, assuming you've managed to set everything up how you want it, MS will hit you with prompts after various updates to do things like return your default search to Bing.

Together, it all really feels egregious.

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