Researchers find signs of intelligence among jumping spiders • Hacker News Board

Re: Researchers find signs of intelligence among jumping spiders

#171

Post by ChatGTP » Thu, Jan 25, 2024, 2:25 PM UTC

rafaelero wrote: post #169

ChatGTP wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well it's an inescapable fact that anything alive is going to die, and likely be eaten. Basically all animals, and even plants (living creatures too) are going to die horrible deaths, being ripped apart by predators etc. We too, will likely be food for worms. The point he is trying to make is to celebrate the life of whatever you're eating by at least making something special out of it an enjoying it rather than turn…

It's a weird way to celebrate a life when you do it after killing it for your own pleasure. We should aim at minimizing pain, not at creating feel-good rituals for our meals.

What do you suggest people eat then? Air?

The context was, even killing plants is wrong, so we should cook and enjoy those to the best of our ability.

You can say "plants aren't self-aware" or something, but there's no way out of it. Plants might even be home for insects or other creatures which die when you take the plants. Plants are living organisms and you shorten a beetroots life when you tug it out of the ground.

I think the point still stands. Be grateful for each meal and do your best to enjoy and savor it. It's not about "celebrating killing" you injected that into it. It's about showing respect.

Re: Researchers find signs of intelligence among jumping spiders

#172

Post by binary132 » Thu, Jan 25, 2024, 2:30 PM UTC

bosquefrio wrote: post #38

The first time I ran into one of these cute little jumping spiders was in a backyard while I was reading a book. I felt something on my chair and moved and I saw something jump across to the small table next to me. I noticed that it was a spider. I didn't know spiders could jump like that. I was very surprised when it turned around and looked at me. Scrutinizing me. It literally was moving its head looking at me tryi…

It really seemed like one made eye contact with me once. It was clearly staring right at me. I'm always saying they're intelligent!

Re: Researchers find signs of intelligence among jumping spiders

#173

Post by rafaelero » Thu, Jan 25, 2024, 2:39 PM UTC

ChatGTP wrote: post #171

rafaelero wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a weird way to celebrate a life when you do it after killing it for your own pleasure. We should aim at minimizing pain, not at creating feel-good rituals for our meals.

What do you suggest people eat then? Air? The context was, even killing plants is wrong, so we should cook and enjoy those to the best of our ability. You can say "plants aren't self-aware" or something, but there's no way out of it. Plants might even be home for insects or other creatures which die when you take the plants. Plants are living organisms and you shorten a beetroots life when you tug it out of the groun…

Minimizing pain means eating less animals with developed nervous systems and more plants.

Re: Researchers find signs of intelligence among jumping spiders

#174

Post by 4ggr0 » Thu, Jan 25, 2024, 2:53 PM UTC

dleeftink wrote: post #166

4ggr0 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm unbelievably scared of syringes and especially giving blood samples. To the point where I get hot and feel sick when people around me talk about it. Don't even want to imagine what exposure therapy would be like for this :D

Completely understandable. But just know it can be overcome, albeit gradually. You'll start small and decide the pace your comfortable with. As an aside, at a younger age I shared your aversion to syringes. It wasn't the adminstering per se, but the perceived lack of control. What helped me was realising that 23 hours, 59 minutes and 55 seconds out of the day, I am in control -- those 5 seconds of needling (if that)…

EDIT: I think blood sample is the wrong term, what I mean is blood count/work, where they take quite a bit of blood out of your arm. Not the small tests where they prick a finger.

> I hope you are able to overcome your aversion

Yeah, I hope so too. Thanks for the empathy. I've actually overcome my fear of vaccines. I can't sleep that well the night before and I'm still sweaty and stressed, but I know that it will just hurt a tiny little bit.

Giving blood samples is actually the big issue. I've had two of those as a kid, both times I became unconscious and once I had to throw up. Also had general anesthesia three times as a kid, I guess these five times where a needle had to go into my arm just traumatised me in some way. I hate the pain it gives me and the whole experience just really stresses my out. I'm actually getting sweaty palms right now, just because I'm writing/thinking about it :D

I recently went to the doctor because I started getting migraines. Doctor recommended me going to a Neurologist and mentioned that they would probably have to take blood samples, which was the reason that I refused. I just couldn't handle the thought of having to do it again.

The last blood sample I had to do was as a young teenager, like 10 years ago. I know that you should frequently test your blood to spot deficiencies, but I'm simply too scared...a bit embarassing to be honest. I've actually considered asking them to just give me nitrous oxide so that they can do it while I'm unconscious :D But I think nitrous oxide is an american thing, never heard of someone getting it where I live.

Anyways, no real sense to what I wrote, I just felt like documenting my thoughts about this situation. Actually feel quite queasy now. Time for some fresh air.

Re: Researchers find signs of intelligence among jumping spiders

#175

Post by gaiagraphia » Thu, Jan 25, 2024, 3:07 PM UTC

tsimionescu wrote: post #120

dinkleberg wrote: post #27

One of the craziest things to me when looking at a jumping spider is the unbelievable size and mass difference between us. An 80kg person is ~6,000,000x heavier than the average jumping spider. Whereas a blue whale is only like 2,000-3,000x heavier than that 80kg person (if I'm doing my math right). They are obviously tiny, but I wouldn't have imagined what titans we must be from their perspective.

A thought I've sometimes had is that if we had evolved to be as tiny as something like these spiders, but still at our current level of intelligence and society, chimps or elephants or whales would still be almost insurmountable threats to us even with today's level of technology. It'd take entire nations years of effort to build a gun or rocket that could even hurt something that much bigger than us.

They also could provide insurmountable opportunity. You'd have a huge advantage against enemies if you could develop some kind of mutualism with the beasts of nature.

Imagine living on top of an elephant. I guess you would attend to its skin and health, in exchange for a great defensive position, free transport, the potential to live off dying cells and moisture, etc.

Fast forward a very long time, and you might have humans controlling all the animals of the wild, which would have developed their own ways of survival, territory and rivalries. Animals which lack this 'army' of humans tending to them would die out. Wouldn't be so different to now...

Re: Researchers find signs of intelligence among jumping spiders

#176

Post by sph » Thu, Jan 25, 2024, 3:19 PM UTC

asimovfan wrote: post #145

kuschkufan wrote: post #144

The misunderstood spider meme from 2013 comes to mind. Gosh, is that long ago: https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/misunderstood-spider

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/19/31/b1/1931b1494c90e78f15dc60c52... Also this one

I stopped bothering cellar spiders I found in my house after one morning a fly woke me up and proceeded to land on a spiderweb behind the radiator. They are welcome guests now.

The larger ones though I politely but firmly invite to leave.

Re: Researchers find signs of intelligence among jumping spiders

#177

Post by sph » Thu, Jan 25, 2024, 3:25 PM UTC

rickydroll wrote: post #59

aulin wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone who's ever interacted with any kind of animal knows how they are intelligent. The lack of science on this matter is not the reason we still consume meat and more science won't change anything. We've always found ways to justify/accept our need for meat and wel'll continue doing this as long as science doesn't find an equally nutritious alternative that can be produced at scale.

> Anyone who's ever interacted with any kind of animal knows how they are intelligent. Anyone who's ever had backyard chickens knows they are not intelligent. Nature gave them a brain to keep the spinal cord from fraying.

In the words of Werner Herzog:

https://youtu.be/QhMo4WlBmGM?si=9rwaeU6DeaBPTQBN

Re: Researchers find signs of intelligence among jumping spiders

#178

Post by sph » Thu, Jan 25, 2024, 3:27 PM UTC

aulin wrote: post #112

JohnMakin wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not making any kind of statement as to why we consume meat or whether we should, just making an observation

Sorry, I wasn't really arguing against you. It's just that every time an article like this comes out everyone act likes it's a step towards abandoning meat. Unfortunately that's not so easy.

It is perfectly possible to accept that we are meat-eating apex predators and still be in awe and respect of the intelligence of other life forms.

Re: Researchers find signs of intelligence among jumping spiders

#179

Post by sph » Thu, Jan 25, 2024, 3:28 PM UTC

dcassett wrote: post #170

zabzonk wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i do not believe it is possible to be bitten by a jumping spider (and most other spiders) - they are just too small.

Can confirm. I cornered one in a windowsill as a child and was bitten.

What did you expect? Corner me in and I'll probably bite.

Re: Researchers find signs of intelligence among jumping spiders

#180

Post by sph » Thu, Jan 25, 2024, 3:36 PM UTC

rafaelero wrote: post #173

ChatGTP wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you suggest people eat then? Air? The context was, even killing plants is wrong, so we should cook and enjoy those to the best of our ability. You can say "plants aren't self-aware" or something, but there's no way out of it. Plants might even be home for insects or other creatures which die when you take the plants. Plants are living organisms and you shorten a beetroots life when you tug it out of the groun…

Minimizing pain means eating less animals with developed nervous systems and more plants.

You can make all the rationalisations you want and operate however you see fit, but Homo Sapiens Sapiens is an omnivorous apex predator of the highest order.

Meat eating and tool use, borne out of the need to maximise the amount of calorie-dense food available are the reason we are here today discussing the finer points of vegetarianism.

Instead of being a blind zealot, I try to understand that life is a series of paradoxes and compromises. Balancing the fact that meat is good for me while minimising suffering for any plant and animal that crosses my path does feel more human than altogether discarding evolution, our DNA and place in the ecosystem for a wishy-washy ideology that only exists for people leading rich and comfortable lives.

Vegetarianism is a fine and commendable personal choice, as long as it doesn't devolve in proselytism.