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When America first dropped acid

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Re: When America first dropped acid

#171

Post by zikzak »

justatdotin wrote: post #160
zikzak wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could not agree more. I have tripped countless times. But in the late 80s and early 90s. No hippies to be found. I did have some interesting revelations but nothing I wouldn't have come to via other means of conversation or introspection. For me, and most people I was doing this with, it was just an affordable, long lasting drug. Sure, I had read various books about opening the doors of perception but at some point y…

> it's just more "you" that you are finding surely "just" more you still offers "deep spiritual truths", and surely finding them makes you more enlightened. > I'd say meditation can give you the benefits that people associate with psychedelics if you are consistent in the practice. I don't see how this in anyway devalues the psychedelics

Enlightenment is not something you have more or less of. :)

If you have experienced what people often refer to as enlightenment, you'll know the feeling fades. It's like trying to hold onto water. Knowing it is there can change the way you think about the world, sure, but chasing it is the ultimate ego trip. It's probably better to be open to it than to run around looking for it.

And I have to tell you, listening to Slayer on the second day of an acid binge in some dingy basement apartment while you try to figure out who you know that has some weed is not the same as hanging around in an alpine meadow with the cast of Hair. It's just not.

I never meant to devalue psychedelics, I was agreeing with the removal of that magical cache they seem to enjoy. For a lot of people they are simply affordable party drugs that let you drink your face off and have a good time for 8 hours or whatever. Their clinical use is very different and I love that it is being explored in a rigorous manner.

The psychedelic drugs themselves do not operate in a vacuum. They are neither good nor bad. I don't mean to devalue their therapeutic use but if anything they are a shortcut to give you a taste of what is possible with your existing hardware.

For an adult trying to lead a responsible life, regular meditation (or walking, playing an instrument, etc) is probably better than self-dosing after work on a Friday. For someone struggling with PTSD, I would imagine a dose in the right environment alleviates that burden in a way most other things cannot. Seeing that it is possible to not feel like you have been feeling could give you the motivation to try to hold on to that and find other ways to experience it. That's incredibly valuable.

Re: When America first dropped acid

#172

Post by jrflowers »

ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #13

Recently read a description of 1960's ideology. The claim being that its all propaganda, and what we know as 60s ideology (peace love etc) actually never really happened for a real duration of time. What did happen was that those that prescribed to that line of thinking either moved to communes, or they dropped so much acid they were societally irrelevant. There werent many people actually out and about that were pus…

It is refreshing to read a description of a claim somebody read online, it really makes you think

Re: When America first dropped acid

#173

Post by shwaj »

dingnuts wrote: post #109
matrix87 wrote: post #99

I used to do psychedelics frequently and tried really hard to get something out of them. Up until the last time I dropped acid, I just got high and came down. The last time I ever did a psychedelic, I dropped acid and was reading this book called "Be Here Now" by Ram Dass. There's a part of the book that talks about drug induced psychosis. There's some illustration of lightning hitting a tower. I remember turning the…

>When I started doing them I wasn't able to believe in God, after that experience I could meanwhile, the experience of general anesthesia basically took away my ability to believe in God one in one out, I guess. It seems like I'd be happier if I'd gone the other way but one can't control what one believes

I’m very curious to hear more, if you’re willing to share.

Re: When America first dropped acid

#174

Post by bhk »

aidenn0 wrote: post #143
bhk wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The LSD movement was started by the CIA. I wouldn't be here now without the foresight of CIA scientists." -- Timothy Leary Subproject 6 of MK-ULTRA involved funding Eli Lilly to develop its own synthesis of LSD. The CIA embarked on this to ensure an adequate supply after finding that Sandoz had produced only 40 grams total of LSD. After Lilly succeeded, the CIA became the main customer, and via various other subproj…

> only 40 grams total of LSD Isn't that quite a lot of LSD?

Kinzer reports a funny story. The officer dispatched to Basel "returned a report that Sandoz had ten kilograms of LSD on hand, which he correctly called a 'fantastically large amount'. [Allen] Dulles approved the expenditure of $240,000 to buy it all -- the world's entire supply. The two officers sent to pick it up, however, quickly discovered that their colleague had confused kilograms with grams. Sandoz had manufactured a total of less than forty grams, of which ten were in stock."

Re: When America first dropped acid

#175

Post by bratwurst3000 »

QuercusMax wrote: post #141
ethanbond wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternatively you can also meditate/pray your way to similar states as the ones psychedelics induce. It takes a ton of practice, but I was able to generate very notable open-eyed hallucinations after just 2 years of low-intensity meditative practice (roughly equivalent to 120ug of LSD). It is totally believable that a true religious zealot would be able to achieve much, much more with decades of practice.

Ram Dass told the story about how he visited the guru Neem Karoli Baba (AKA Maharaj-ji) and gave him a bunch of LSD, which supposedly had no effect on the guru because he was already having open-eye hallucinations from his meditation. https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cross-check/baba-ram-da... Probably BS, but matches with what you say.

Hehe maybe the guru had a severe psychosis and that’s why the lsd didn’t do anything.

Re: When America first dropped acid

#176

Post by pgsandstrom »

ethanbond wrote: post #111
Workaccount2 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a not insignificant amount of evidence pointing to psychedelics as playing an outsized role in the formation of religions. A shaman brewing a mystical drink that gives you visions of supernatural forces is pretty convincing evidence of a god(s) to your any 2000 B.C. person. How else could you explain such a trip while having no concept of chemicals much less neurochemistry.

Alternatively you can also meditate/pray your way to similar states as the ones psychedelics induce. It takes a ton of practice, but I was able to generate very notable open-eyed hallucinations after just 2 years of low-intensity meditative practice (roughly equivalent to 120ug of LSD). It is totally believable that a true religious zealot would be able to achieve much, much more with decades of practice.

In your experience, how common is this? I must know at least thirty people that have meditated for over 15 years, and none have mentioned open-eyed hallucinations.

Re: When America first dropped acid

#177

Post by PaperOliver »

pgsandstrom wrote: post #176
ethanbond wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternatively you can also meditate/pray your way to similar states as the ones psychedelics induce. It takes a ton of practice, but I was able to generate very notable open-eyed hallucinations after just 2 years of low-intensity meditative practice (roughly equivalent to 120ug of LSD). It is totally believable that a true religious zealot would be able to achieve much, much more with decades of practice.

In your experience, how common is this? I must know at least thirty people that have meditated for over 15 years, and none have mentioned open-eyed hallucinations.

I have also had this experience. Meditating for 12 minutes a day for a year or so.

Re: When America first dropped acid

#178

Post by scotty79 »

justatdotin wrote: post #160
zikzak wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could not agree more. I have tripped countless times. But in the late 80s and early 90s. No hippies to be found. I did have some interesting revelations but nothing I wouldn't have come to via other means of conversation or introspection. For me, and most people I was doing this with, it was just an affordable, long lasting drug. Sure, I had read various books about opening the doors of perception but at some point y…

> it's just more "you" that you are finding surely "just" more you still offers "deep spiritual truths", and surely finding them makes you more enlightened. > I'd say meditation can give you the benefits that people associate with psychedelics if you are consistent in the practice. I don't see how this in anyway devalues the psychedelics

> surely "just" more you still offers "deep spiritual truths", and surely finding them makes you more enlightened.

Or maybe it just makes "you" more crawled up "your" own esoterical butt?

Re: When America first dropped acid

#179

Post by scotty79 »

asveikau wrote: post #82
ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #13

Recently read a description of 1960's ideology. The claim being that its all propaganda, and what we know as 60s ideology (peace love etc) actually never really happened for a real duration of time. What did happen was that those that prescribed to that line of thinking either moved to communes, or they dropped so much acid they were societally irrelevant. There werent many people actually out and about that were pus…

I disagree, but ignoring this somewhat, I offer this: One remarkable thing is how the hippie stuff often induced by chemical manipulation of serotonin receptors mirrors a lot of religious messages. You can take slogans like "peace on earth, love your neighbor, love is all you need" and say, is that hippie stuff? Or is it, say... The message attributed to Jesus? In that sense, you don't really need the drugs or counte…

Peacefully loving all is just a natural state of relaxed mammal. It's an idea you might try to verbalize if you are cut off from disturbing sensations by a chemical or perhaps when your are comfy, warm and fed, without extending any effort because you have all your needs taken care of by disciples you sweettalked into doing it.

Re: When America first dropped acid

#180

Post by bowsamic »

opportune wrote: post #155
bowsamic wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience was sadly the opposite and it greatly exacerbated my depression and invented the thought of suicide in my mind. It’s hard because there are many people online who get angry at any mention of negative outcomes, but I have to share my side of the story too. Thankfully it is slowly improving, but it has been quite a ride since then. Maybe exactly what I needed? But can’t say those 5 years weren’t absolute…

It also took me 5 years to recover from a bad trip - I believe it was so traumatic that it gave me some form of PTSD. I had actually tripped several times before and also tried other psychedelics. Completely agree that online you are met with skepticism and FUD at the mentions of these experiences, and also that maybe ultimately it did have some positives come of it (respect your body and mind and don’t be reckless?…

The worst part is that I've met a lot of people who clearly were also traumatised by their drug experience but they feel pressured to pretend it was strictly a positive experience because of these social pressures to say they are good. This happens in all kinds of spaces though. I'm also a Buddhist but I never found relief from my depression from my intense meditation practise or working with my teacher, but again all anyone can say is that "it's your fault, you did it wrong". Regarding my psychedelic experience they say "you had bad set and setting" and when I tell them that I was in a really great setting with people I trust and that I didn't feel depressed going in they just move the goal posts. People just don't believe me honestly. I think if you haven't had it happen to you it's totally incomprehensible.

But ultimately it just made me kind of sad. Why do I still have to be depressed even after having these drug experiences that permanently cured depression for others? Instead for me it just made it worse, and that really made me feel hopeless for a long time. The only reason it doesn't now is because I've finally secured some intense psychoanalysis which seems to actually be helping me.

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