They’re also goddamn demeaning. My diversity statement would be outside the Overton window of the white ladies who get paid to read diversity statements. Why should I have to perform for them?
A math professor who objects to diversity statements
171–180 of 328 posts
Re: A math professor who objects to diversity statements
#172Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thanks,i agree its best to look at it directly. But i do wonder what lines like "Clearly formulates new ideas for advancing equity and inclusion at Berkeley and within their field, through their research,..." mean What does it mean for a math professor to advance diversity through their research? Like i could maybe get it for the arts or even some social sciences, but what does that look like for math?
Not only that, but it presupposes that diversity is a good in and of itself, which I think is quite false when it comes to diversity of physical characteristics (which is all that these initiatives ever care about). Diversity is neutral . It is just as erroneous to think that a group is enhanced by adding people just for their race (or gender, etc) as it is to think that a group is enhanced by excluding people just f…
You aren’t going to get a job like that.
Re: A math professor who objects to diversity statements
#173Earlier quoted context omitted.
While I largely agree with what you said, about > there is this tendency of social activists towards conformance and centralization in the direction of authoritarianism I don't think that's the case, actually. I suspect the tendency actually comes from liberalism, i.e. notion of individual freedom. If we are to give people individual freedom, then we are going to be neglectful of the power they attain as groups. This…
> Most of the left is more accepting of liberalism than liberals are accepting of the left This isn't true, it is legal to be a communist in capitalist countries but many communist countries made it illegal and imprisoned anyone who argued for capitalism. Liberalism wins when people get to vote and decide, people hate when their liberties gets taken away so you need to become authoritarian to push further than for ex…
When I am talking about acceptance of the values of equality (3) from liberals, I mean willingness to compromise and understand the benefit of value (3) for society. You're talking about acceptance on paper - yeah, you can have all these fringe ideas, and talk about them all you want, as long as they are not actually implemented. Which is nothing more than value (2).
And communist countries.. ah what a stupid trope (most of the self-declared "communist" countries were simply right-wing dictatorships). I am pretty sure in e.g. Kerala you can have any beliefs you want. Ideologically, communism is a whole spectrum of ideas between values of (3) and (4), and it doesn't even explicitly reject (2) (although the most famous implementations did that).
You're ignoring the fact that any ideology can be abused for power. A good example is Milei in Argentina, who is claiming to be a liberal as a means of becoming an authoritarian dictator. Yet it doesn't devalue liberalism.
Taking any of the values (2), (3), (4) to the extreme (in particular, at the expense of (1)) is dangerous and liberalism is not different. It just manifests as a different blind spot, in liberalism (value (2)) taken to extreme, it is a blind spot towards people at the extremes of the social hierarchy. Values (3) or (4) taken to extreme share a blind spot towards individual self-expression.
Re: A math professor who objects to diversity statements
#174Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not research, but Jelani Nelson at Berkeley ran programmes in Ethiopia to expose schoolchildren to programming. (In case it needs to be said, Jelani is a top-shelf theoretical computer scientist.)
Why should a STEM professor be required to devote time to such activities? It doesn't seem to be their specialty, humanity does better when we are allowed to specialize, other people can do such things.
Because if they don’t, they might be the wrong sort of people.
Re: A math professor who objects to diversity statements
#175Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Most of the left is more accepting of liberalism than liberals are accepting of the left This isn't true, it is legal to be a communist in capitalist countries but many communist countries made it illegal and imprisoned anyone who argued for capitalism. Liberalism wins when people get to vote and decide, people hate when their liberties gets taken away so you need to become authoritarian to push further than for ex…
When I am talking about acceptance of the values of equality (3) from liberals, I mean willingness to compromise and understand the benefit of value (3) for society. You're talking about acceptance on paper - yeah, you can have all these fringe ideas, and talk about them all you want, as long as they are not actually implemented. Which is nothing more than value (2). And communist countries.. ah what a stupid trope (…
> yeah, you can have all these fringe ideas, and talk about them all you want, as long as they are not actually implemented.
Every developed nation is full of social programs to help the poor and give people things they need to live a good life. It varies a bit from country to country, but even USA has programs to give schooling to every kid and feed the poor so they don't starve and ensure even the poor get healthcare.
So no, I don't accept your argument here, we today do listen a lot to leftist ideas and implemented a ton of them, the evidence for that is everywhere.
Re: A math professor who objects to diversity statements
#176I really wish the young people on the left who snark about "late-stage capitalism" every time a Walgreens declines to refund pack of Sour Patches would talk to people from countries like China, India, or Russia. We truly don't understand how good we have it in the US. Do we have corruption? Sure. Regulatory capture? Yeah. A stupid healthcare system? Absolutely. But you can't be thrown in jail for comparing Mitch McCo…
Cool I'll keep that in mind as my friend slowly dies from a hereditary condition but can't get disability because he's never been able to work. Glad things like healthcare and corruption are actually just little nuances.
Re: A math professor who objects to diversity statements
#177Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Doesn't help when you get filtered out from attending college. Please provide evidence of high application rates for underprivileged white males and then abnormally low acceptance rates to support your claim of white men being turned away at the door. My experience was that college was more than happy to sign me up for financial aid, due to my family's lower income, and then student loans, to boot. They don't even…
> Please provide evidence of high application rates for underprivileged white males and then abnormally low acceptance rates to support your claim of white men being turned away at the door. Why? The fact that they are under represented is enough evidence, at least according to the left.
Because this is forum that values critical thinking and productive discussion. When you present things out of context, cherry pick data, or make otherwise unrealistic claims, people will push back on you to support your claims.
Re: A math professor who objects to diversity statements
#178Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm a white male from a very similar background. The thing that separates us from black and hispanic colleagues is that the white guys that are hiring automatically trust us 10x more than a black or hispanic candidate, regardless of where we came from, where we went to school, or how much money we had growing up. You might see a lot of diversity in PhD programs, but as soon as you step into a high paying professional…
> The thing that separates us from black and hispanic colleagues is that the white guys that are hiring automatically trust us 10x more than a black or hispanic candidate I just don’t think that’s true. I spend a lot of time around elite whites, and I think being a poor white is just about the worst thing in their eyes. God help you if you have a hick accent or something like that. I think they’re much more likely to…
I think you're right about that situation in particular. I've had people look down their nose at me before, but I work in the energy sector now, and that's just not a thing that happens anymore.
Re: A math professor who objects to diversity statements
#179Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Doesn't help when you get filtered out from attending college. Please provide evidence of high application rates for underprivileged white males and then abnormally low acceptance rates to support your claim of white men being turned away at the door. My experience was that college was more than happy to sign me up for financial aid, due to my family's lower income, and then student loans, to boot. They don't even…
> high application rates Unfortunately, for a lot of groups, low application rates are part of the problem. Not enough people are encouraging members of these groups to apply and not enough members of these groups figure out on their own that applying to things are worthwhile. Everyone I met in college applied to college (of course!), but far too many had stories about how their high schools actively discouraged them…
Sure! But the GP was stating that unprivileged white males were applying, but being filtered out. There's a difference between being underrepresented due to a bias, and underrepresented because your cohort has opted out.
Frankly, with the rising cost of a college education and the stagnation of income in a lot of fields, people should think long and hard about where they go to school and what they major in.
Re: A math professor who objects to diversity statements
#180Earlier quoted context omitted.
The Russians really love their Kipling. Not sure why he is so popular in Russia.
I can think of a few reasons. - Russians like poetry that actually rhymes - "The Jungle Book" and "Riki Tiki Tavi" were very popular - The controversial pieces like "The White Man's Burden" weren't translated until after Kipling's death Also, "The White Man's Burden" is viewed with a bit of distance. Few in America remember the context in which it was written, and that context is as important as the text of the poem…
> Russians like poetry that actually rhymes
That's true of most people, but it seems unlikely to explain why they like particular poetry in a foreign language. It won't rhyme in translation.
Kipling was a great writer; that seems sufficient to explain why people like his work.