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Autonomous trucking is harder than autonomous rideshare

kevinchen.co

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Re: Autonomous trucking is harder than autonomous rideshare

#171

Post by lotsoweiners »

bluGill wrote: post #94
jampekka wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have a lot safer transportation systems than private cars but don't deploy them. Is this basically killing people too? Driving is murder?

Yes. There are a lot of people who are driving for things that a good public transit system could handle. Sure you can have your SUV for towing the boat to the lake - but you only do that on weekends (and no every weekend) - why are you driving to work, to church, get groceries - for most people those are tasks that that a good transit system could handle. Note that by good transit system I mean one where you never c…

Yeah I’d totally take transit so long as it will pick me up in my driveway, is ready within a minute of me deciding I need to leave, and is a ride for only me and my family/friends.

Re: Autonomous trucking is harder than autonomous rideshare

#172

Post by ItsMonkk »

BobaFloutist wrote: post #107
sva_ wrote: post #92

I've been observing that AI tools often don't really replace people, but rather amplify the amount of work that a single individual can do. In that way, rather than seeking to replace truck drivers, it might first be more useful to make it possible that one driver can navigate two trucks in tandem, and later perhaps more. The largest issue with autonomous driving seems to be the ~20% edge cases that may occur, and ha…

> two trucks in tandem, and later perhaps more. Or we could put them on tracks and physically attach them to one another.

Yep.

I don't really see the point in anything long range for autonomous vehicles in the near-term. We should optimize the use-case of them driving people and goods to and from train stations. For this use-case it should be entirely fine if the max speed they can achieve is 20mph. The stopping times and force that can be achieved at those speeds should bring down the danger by quite a bit.

Re: Autonomous trucking is harder than autonomous rideshare

#173

Post by lotsoweiners »

perlgeek wrote: post #158
chefkoch wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Germany you share the Autobahn with trucks going 90km/h and some cars going 200 km/h.

... and I hate it, it's so much stress (unless you're constantly on the right lane and driving 90km/h). When you cross from the Autobahn to Denmark, where there's a speed limit of at most 130km/h, traffic immediately becomes less stressful.

Sounds like you’re the problem.

Re: Autonomous trucking is harder than autonomous rideshare

#174

Post by wongarsu »

chefkoch wrote: post #138
jmull wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> …you can cut their speed say 33%… You probably can’t have cars going 70 or faster sharing the road with trucks going a steady 45.

In Germany you share the Autobahn with trucks going 90km/h and some cars going 200 km/h.

Germany is much more disciplined than the US about being in the right lane and only overtaking on the left. Most of the US has the same rules in theory, but people following the rules less strictly combined with the low speed limits means they don't get the clearly separated speeds for each lane you get on a German Autobahn.

Re: Autonomous trucking is harder than autonomous rideshare

#175

Post by pbhjpbhj »

cariaso wrote: post #159
bwestergard wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you provide a few examples of people expressing a general desire for "more stuff faster" before 1500 and outside Western Europe?

sure here’s one. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isis_(ship) As part of the https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cura_Annonae

The free-gratis supply of bread; as a daily life-preserving staple; to a portion of the population doesn't appear to match the spirit of "more stuff faster".

Surely basic food supply is "the bare minimum of stuff" and the rate is fixed to 'each day' (and the delivery to grain stores is 'each harvest in the supplying region'? Yes, it's more as populations grow and centralise, but that appears to be occurring the context of the question, no?

Re: Autonomous trucking is harder than autonomous rideshare

#176

Post by lotsoweiners »

silvestrov wrote: post #10

If he thinks driving cars in cities is the easiest problem, he does not have experience driving a car in a European city with lots of cyclists and pedestrians. Driving a car in inner Copenhagen is a stressful situation due to the insane number of cyclist you have to watch out for, see https://youtu.be/FaySp9i2zMA?t=113

Seems like it should be more stressful for the cyclists especially if they aren’t following the rules of the road.

Re: Autonomous trucking is harder than autonomous rideshare

#177

Post by c0nfused »

FooBarBizBazz wrote: post #108
hinkley wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bar for commercial driving should definitely be higher than for “civilian”. But I think the bar for civilian is also woefully out of date now. Giant trucks should require a commercial license. Make it easier to get than a delivery truck license, but weed out the soccer moms and bring back the station wagon. If you’re a professional tree trimmer, general contractor, or a forester, renewing your license is on the c…

This is a great idea and the first I've heard of it. Set a maximum weight of 5,000 lbs for an ordinary license. Minivans will come in just under the line. Small SUVs like the CRV or RAV4 will be allowed, as will small trucks like the Ford Maverick. Indeed, most of those vehicles are under 4,000 lbs. Even some larger SUVs like the Honda Pilot or (just barely) the Toyota 4runner get under the bar. Even a low-specced F-…

I actually think we should also include a hood height limit.

I would be for a CDL for any vehicle that is tall enough that an aver age pedestrian standing on the street cannot see over the hood.

I'm over 6 feet tall and I regularly have trouble doing this as a pedestrian in the USA. I can only imagine how it is to be smaller.

Re: Autonomous trucking is harder than autonomous rideshare

#178

Post by wongarsu »

o11c wrote: post #126
foofie wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If anything driverless helps dramatically on this front. If you can run trucks 24/7 without stopping then you can cut their speed say 33% or whatever and still come out on top. I think that this line of reasoning misses the forest for the trees. If the promise of a silver bullet is a mode of transportation that can safely and reliably work 24/7 day and night with limited to no human interaction and be able to move…

The problem with rail is that most businesses don't want a whole train worth, and removing just a single car from the train is hard.

Why don't containers already solve that problem? You can unload individual containers just fine, even put them on a truck for last-mile delivery. And then there's this American idea of putting entire trailers on flatbed cars, so you can just roll them on and off.

Re: Autonomous trucking is harder than autonomous rideshare

#179

Post by pbhjpbhj »

Xelbair wrote: post #125
crazygringo wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but I really don't feel like society will accept anything other than trucks / vehicles that are able to operate under all conditions Trucks are different because they're just for transportation of goods. As challenging weather arrives they can just wait at the nearest rest stop, pull over on the shoulder, etc. Your shipping will be delayed, but outside of that I don't think society will care. Totally acceptable as…

>Trucks are different because they're just for transportation of goods. As challenging weather arrives they can just wait at the nearest rest stop, pull over on the shoulder, etc. Trucks? waiting? In "just in time" culture of storage management, where buffers are low and delays are nightmare?

The same problem exists with manned and autonomous vehicles here though, it seems. Only for autonomous vehicles you don't have to worry about the safety of personnel. They might need digging out come the end of the storm?

Re: Autonomous trucking is harder than autonomous rideshare

#180

Post by minwcnt5 »

silvestrov wrote: post #10

If he thinks driving cars in cities is the easiest problem, he does not have experience driving a car in a European city with lots of cyclists and pedestrians. Driving a car in inner Copenhagen is a stressful situation due to the insane number of cyclist you have to watch out for, see https://youtu.be/FaySp9i2zMA?t=113

You're describing driving from a human perspective. The delta from no cyclists or pedestrians to 100 cyclists or pedestrians is a lot easier for a computer than a human because it can pay attention to all of them simultaneously and plan a trajectory accordingly. Waymo handles this kind of complexity in SF all the time.
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