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Is htmx Just Another JavaScript Framework?

htmx.org

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171–180 of 318 posts

Re: Is htmx Just Another JavaScript Framework?

#171

Post by gkbrk »

quonn wrote: post #43
danielvaughn wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know how build systems work at lower levels, but things move so fast in the web development world that it renders your codebase inoperable if you don't maintain it. I've had a codebase that sat for as little as 6 months without me touching it. When I tried to run it again, I ran into so many compatibility issues that I had to tediously copy out all of my code into a new project and then fix the remaining issu…

That‘s why there is a lock file. The package manager and node version can likewise be locked.

Yeah, just lock your versions without updating in the JS ecosystem with typical projects having thousands of dependencies, and watch your CVE count go up every day you don't update.

Re: Is htmx Just Another JavaScript Framework?

#173

Post by alexpetros »

donatj wrote: post #67
hellcow wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You set it up once. It takes a few hours, maybe a day. Until you need to update a dependency on a large codebase, which takes weeks because dependency A doesn't work with dependency B version X, and updating dependency B means that it no longer works with dependency C version Y, and so on. And nobody uses dependency C anymore -- it's unmaintained, so you need to rewrite everything to use dependency D. Then you need…

This is exactly what we’re dealing with right now trying to upgrade TypeScript. We’re stuck on an early version of 4.X because of some dependency triangle I haven’t had time to work out.

I am always perplexed by how many people deny the reality of this. Upgrading TypeScript major versions for any package of non-trivial size and dependencies is often (not always, but often) quite difficult! I wrote about that in my last htmx essay.[0]

[0] https://htmx.org/essays/no-build-step/

Re: Is htmx Just Another JavaScript Framework?

#174

Post by candiddevmike »

recursivedoubts wrote: post #128

I am the author of htmx. I think htmx is a library using the following definition: - a library you call - a framework calls your code in htmx you add attributes to HTML to "call" htmx, so, from the perspective, you can call it a library. On the other hand, those "calls" are called back into via event handlers in JavaScript, so an argument can be made that, even at this level, htmx is a framework. I liked alex's analy…

IMO, a library is easily swappable with another library, a framework is not, it's all over your codebase. Htmx meets the definition of the latter.

Re: Is htmx Just Another JavaScript Framework?

#175

Post by smallerfish »

sureglymop wrote: post #159
smallerfish wrote: post #28

htmx + kotlinx.html + kotlinjs is an excellent combo that gives you an MPA that looks and feels like a modern webapp, with minimal stack complexity, and fully typesafe/compiled UI code. I'm also layering in tailwind & flowbite. With the hotswapagent project, you get hotswap that works for when you're building out UIs. One day I'll blog about this stack in more detail and post here.

This sounds interesting. Would you be so kind as to explain how to set this up or link to an example? I do have experience with plain kotlin but googling yielded not many results on how to integrate all these components you mentioned into a basic MPA. So - blog post encouraged :)

I definitely will post about it, but it's probably a blog length walkthrough :). I have an email notification form on my blog if you want to be notified when I get it done: https://smaller.fish/ (I promise no spam.)

Re: Is htmx Just Another JavaScript Framework?

#176

Post by lemoncade »

recursivedoubts wrote: post #128

I am the author of htmx. I think htmx is a library using the following definition: - a library you call - a framework calls your code in htmx you add attributes to HTML to "call" htmx, so, from the perspective, you can call it a library. On the other hand, those "calls" are called back into via event handlers in JavaScript, so an argument can be made that, even at this level, htmx is a framework. I liked alex's analy…

lol u are everywhere

Re: Is htmx Just Another JavaScript Framework?

#177

Post by throwaway_08932 »

crftr wrote: post #21

HTMX aims to render itself obsolete by serving as a proof of concept to advance the HTML specification. In various interviews and blog posts, Carson has mentioned that jQuery was essential only until browsers implemented features like `querySelectorAll`. The discussion about Library vs. Framework misses the core objective of the HTMX project.

I hope "render itself" was an intentional rendering pun.

Re: Is htmx Just Another JavaScript Framework?

#178

Post by alexpetros »

tangentstorm wrote: post #93

> Even though you aren’t writing the 3P code yourself, by including it in your project you are committed to understanding it—and refreshing that understanding if you want to upgrade it. This is a nice thought, but I suspect hardly anyone who uses a framework or library really understands it, or makes the commitment to try. Obviously, a subset of really talented users eventually learn to understand the framework, but…

The main point I'm trying to make here is that even if you're in the "leap of faith" category, you still on some level have to understand the framework constructs (i.e. its API) in order to make use of it. If that API changes with a new version, and you want to upgrade, you're going to have to learn enough about that new API to make the upgrade.

Obviously you benefit from understanding the internals too, but realistically, the more complicated the thing you're using, the less of the internals even a motivated user is going to bother with.

Re: Is htmx Just Another JavaScript Framework?

#179

Post by alexpetros »

recursivedoubts wrote: post #128

I am the author of htmx. I think htmx is a library using the following definition: - a library you call - a framework calls your code in htmx you add attributes to HTML to "call" htmx, so, from the perspective, you can call it a library. On the other hand, those "calls" are called back into via event handlers in JavaScript, so an argument can be made that, even at this level, htmx is a framework. I liked alex's analy…

Some have called this the "Team of Rivals" approach to open source maintenance.

Re: Is htmx Just Another JavaScript Framework?

#180

Post by tiddybittyes »

Before the JS hipsters arrived on the scene attempting to implement Java on the web again. There was and still is nothing wrong with full page refreshes and javascript augmentation per page. HTMX is an aim to get back to that and Web Components are looking good as well.
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