Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 1001 posts

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#171

Post by _giorgio_ »

NorwegianDude wrote: post #6

> laid off employees who worked on ... the Pixel phone. That sounds weird to me. Pixel phones has grown very fast in the last years and I don't se how it can be seen as anything but a great success.

Seems like a good news?

Maybe resetting the engineering department is the only chance of innovating, when the company is so big and the (maybe bad) culture is so pervasive?

Apple has fired Jony Ive, and nothing bad had happened (quite the contrary).

Google has fired the head of computational photography, and nothing bad had happened.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#172

Post by zensayyy »

ricardobayes wrote: post #9

Layoffs are always counter-productive as going forward employees take fewer risks, to evade being the one laid off. Layoffs kill innovation.

must disagree. A bloated company is the killer of innovation. Job security is no indicator for innovation. In fact, the most unsecure job produce the most innovative Tech (see Startups).

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#173

Post by whiplash451 »

sinuhe69 wrote: post #127

Seriously, why people in tech are opposed to unions? In Europe, unions and Betriebsrat (works committee) are the norm. Why not in the US?

In Europe, unions can have devastating effects by ruining the relationships between the leadership and the rank-and-file.

We are stuck in a self-reinforcing feedback loop where unions represent a very small portion of the employees therefore most employees avoid being associated with unions because it makes you look like an activist.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#174

Post by madeofpalk »

trashtester wrote: post #158
sinuhe69 wrote: post #127

Seriously, why people in tech are opposed to unions? In Europe, unions and Betriebsrat (works committee) are the norm. Why not in the US?

One reason is that in times of high growth, unions tend to be a limiting factor to innovation, growth and worker compensation, especially for top performers. Another is that during layoffs, unions may force the company to lay off people based on seniority instead of competency. If you compare salaries for developers between Germany and the US, I think this point becomes blatantly clear.

It's not blatantly clear that US's salaries are due to lack of developer unions.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#176

Post by kalleboo »

steveridout wrote: post #48
ricardobayes wrote: post #9

Layoffs are always counter-productive as going forward employees take fewer risks, to evade being the one laid off. Layoffs kill innovation.

Interesting point but I don't think it's that clear cut. Twitter/X seemed to increase the pace of product changes directly after laying of the majority of its employees after Elon Musk took over. Also, when Steve Jobs returned to lead apple in 1997 he fired a significant fraction of the company before starting an incredible period of innovation. So I think a lot depends on the leadership and incentive structures.

Both of those examples started with laying off basically all of top management.

If you’re just laying off engineers to meet some profitability measure for Wall Street then you’re not going to fix innovation. You need to replace all of management who are the ones who are in charge of what the engineers are doing.

Google is completely lost and doesn’t know what it does. Management launches new products just to look good and shuts them down a year later, and still the only thing making money is search and ads. That’s not going to be fixed by laying off engineers.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#177

Post by xoac »

justanotherjoe wrote: post #125
nly wrote: post #35

My firm made billions last year too and just laid off hundreds of engineers (a decent %) Some of the best engineers, those that I respected the most, went. People who make no sense. After last year's layoffs they told us they were "done" and it was "all behind us". Last year then turned out to a better year financially than 2022 (we have access to the top line numbers) You can't trust anything anyone above you in the…

"Those that I respected the most." I always say this, but if you appreciate someone at work, dont say it to them. Say it to management. Managements face an impossible task of appreciating every single employees' worth. You can help.

In these cases often management just wants to cut the most expensive employees which can overlap with the best.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#178

Post by intexpress »

whiplash451 wrote: post #173
sinuhe69 wrote: post #127

Seriously, why people in tech are opposed to unions? In Europe, unions and Betriebsrat (works committee) are the norm. Why not in the US?

In Europe, unions can have devastating effects by ruining the relationships between the leadership and the rank-and-file. We are stuck in a self-reinforcing feedback loop where unions represent a very small portion of the employees therefore most employees avoid being associated with unions because it makes you look like an activist.

Google leadership has been doing a thorough job at ruining the relationships between leadership and the rank-and-file

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#179

Post by alangibson »

otikik wrote: post #108
nly wrote: post #35

My firm made billions last year too and just laid off hundreds of engineers (a decent %) Some of the best engineers, those that I respected the most, went. People who make no sense. After last year's layoffs they told us they were "done" and it was "all behind us". Last year then turned out to a better year financially than 2022 (we have access to the top line numbers) You can't trust anything anyone above you in the…

I see what you are saying. I am an engineer-turned-EM and you don't know me, so please take everything I say with a grain of salt: > Your job is NOT safe. Nothing will make execs happier than having this line of thought popularized amongst engineers. It will allow them to hire cheaper, and exploit existing engineers more. I think a better way to put it is: "A job is not your family, and a job is not your identity. Yo…

You're both right. To be fair, it reads like he was saying

> Your job is NOT safe.

in service of

> Take their fucking money, build a big emergency fund, save, invest, and focus on the rest of your life outside of work.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#180

Post by conradfr »

resolutebat wrote: post #139
azangru wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can be somewhere for 10 years Our organization has a policy that it hires developers on 3-year contracts, and renews them no more than two times. So when you have reached 9 years in the org; when you have become intimately familiar with the domain, and the codebase, and the way the org works etc., you are out. I am still incredulous that someone has thought that yes, this is exactly how an organization should m…

Why? And why are you working there?

On the other hand, how many times in your career have you stayed at a company more than 9 years?
Post reply on HN