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Jeff Lawson steps down as CEO of Twilio

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Re: Jeff Lawson steps down as CEO of Twilio

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and knew they were something special Can you share more insights on how you knew they were special?

I was an intern at GigaOM in 2009 (a popular tech blog that ran conferences), and my first memory of Twilio was going to the sales people and trying to convince them to give Twilio a discounted booth because I thought the product was so great. I remember the salesperson laughing and saying "this booth costs more money than they have in their bank account", but there was some extra inventory and we got them the booth.…

> Overall, a lot of what I can say about Twilio is super obvious now. But it's kinda like how people watch Friends for the first time in 2023 and say "meh it's a pretty generic sitcom". It's because they created the whole genre and shifted how everything thinks.

I feel this way about most classic media. Famous movies and books almost always feel underwhelming to me because the notable ideas have been reused and referenced so many times that the original ends up feeling like a retread decades later. Interesting connection to tie this phenomenon to tech marketing and dev relations.

Re: Jeff Lawson steps down as CEO of Twilio

#172
post #72

The decline of Twilio's position has been as pretty clear for the last 18 months now, and has been a topic of conversation longer than that. Twilio never had the margins or control of their environment to nearly the degree you need to have in order to maintain software monopoly levels of growth over time. Most of Twilio's business has been built on reselling network access purchased via SMS consolidators. These are c…

> On top of all that, high volume customers would move directly to these consolidators. This is pretty key to understanding Twilio's prospects as a business. In my experience, they are fantastically easy to integrate at first. But they come with a cost that blows up your financial model if your product is any kind of high-volume use case, or if SMS is factored in as a direct cost and you're talking to investors about…

What are cheaper sms solutions that are also reliable and can be used at scale?

Re: Jeff Lawson steps down as CEO of Twilio

#173
post #143
post #38

I worked at Twilio for nearly 10 years and it's hard to overstate what a gift it was to work there and see Jeff operate as CEO up-close. He created an environment where (at our best) we could have fun doing work that had a real impact, and we could it with people we enjoyed doing the work with. He pushed us to be creative to authentically empower and inspire developers. Wanna build a video game that teaches developer…

> Wanna build a video game that teaches developers how to code and use Twilio? Let's try it! Wanna build an AI application with Tony Hawk and have Tony Hawk debug the code live on stage? Sure! These are the strange effects of ZIRP and infinite QE. Many companies never had to care at all about profit and could just do things "for fun", and still see valuations skyrocket as long as they hired more people. What a time.

In my 32 years in the industry the best performing companies always did these things regardless of the macroeconomic climate. It’s when you ceded leadership to the accountants and shifted gears to maintenance mode that companies stopped growing. You never did these things for fun, you did these things because they had some knock on effect that made it potentially worth it, and in a portfolio of many small bets some would blow up into your next big product. Even the ones that seem far left field they created an environment where people felt allowed to dream at all, and their knock on effect was in creation of a risk taking culture.

Blaming low interest rates on taking risk and doing highly speculative things, and investing in a culture that values that by funding off the wall stuff puts too much emphasis on the capital markets. If the company was a steel producer, fine. If it’s a company that essentially captures the stuff of dreams and produces a service that executes thought stuff in machines, you have to decouple your R&D from capital management to the extent your free cash flow can accept it.

Note of course low interest rates and other capital market looseness will create more opportunity for this behavior, and not every company doing these things is doing some is a well managed way. But they don’t have to - that’s the magic of capitalism. Through a Darwinian process only those who strike magic win and survive and the others recycle and try again. This feels like a feature not a flaw of zero interest rates - it creates enormous value by virtue of incentivizing taking risk at a time of high innovation. There are times in history where innovation rates were very low, and zero interest rates would just incentivize broken behavior. But at a time when almost all growth is coming from innovation, maybe loose credit is smart. ml

Re: Jeff Lawson steps down as CEO of Twilio

#174
I love Twillio's products. As a developer turned product manager, I always find it striking that many teams try to reinvent the wheel while Twilio provides a suitable solution with a relatively favorable ROI.

Anyway, I wish the best of luck to Jeff. I consider his book Ask Your Developer: How to Harness the Power of Software Developers and Win in the 21st Century to be one of the must-read books for founders.

Re: Jeff Lawson steps down as CEO of Twilio

#175

I worked at Twilio for 4 years and it was one of the highlights of my career. End of an era, for sure. Thanks Jeff for trying to build an anti-racist company even when it upset some of our investors.

> Thanks Jeff for trying to build an anti-racist company even when it upset some of our investors.

Yikes.

I guess when the company has no profit or potential you have to try to build something else?

Re: Jeff Lawson steps down as CEO of Twilio

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also why George Hu left Twilio. Because Jeff wanted to be a celebrity CEO, and it was to the detriment of the company. All of Twilio's growth (as a public company) happened on George's watch. I don't think it's a coincidence that well after George left, on Jeff's watch - they had to do 3 different layoff for a total of ~24% of their entire public company being let go. Note: former senior level Twilio employee, p…

This is a genuine question... isn't that his job? For a public company, the CEO has to be a public CEO. Everyone takes on a different persona (some sell themselves as business geniuses, others as creative geniuses, and others as someone you wanna grab a beer with). Some really like it, and some do it begrudgingly. But at the end of the day, you can't be the same CEO of a public company as you were when you were priva…

This is not specifically about Jeff in any way, but no, it's not a CEO's job to be a celebrity. It's their job to allocate capital in a superior way (relative to the investors desires ie how much beta, and to marginal opportunities elsewhere in the market). If they cannot produce a better Risk Adjusted Return then they simply should be returning the capital, not being a rockstar and growing.

Re: Jeff Lawson steps down as CEO of Twilio

#178
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wanna build a video game that teaches developers how to code and use Twilio? Let's try it! Wanna build an AI application with Tony Hawk and have Tony Hawk debug the code live on stage? Sure! These are the strange effects of ZIRP and infinite QE. Many companies never had to care at all about profit and could just do things "for fun", and still see valuations skyrocket as long as they hired more people. What a time.

In my 32 years in the industry the best performing companies always did these things regardless of the macroeconomic climate. It’s when you ceded leadership to the accountants and shifted gears to maintenance mode that companies stopped growing. You never did these things for fun, you did these things because they had some knock on effect that made it potentially worth it, and in a portfolio of many small bets some w…

> In my 32 years in the industry the best performing companies always did these things regardless of the macroeconomic climate.

Agreed. Creative, high performing people don't do well in a work environment that's structured like a regional bank.

Valve Software -- incredibly profitable, high performing and private company, did fun things like hire economists (and then later Greek prime minister) to study and simulate virtual, in-game economies [0].

Blizzard Entertainment had giant statues of orcs made and fan conventions before their downfall, ya know, in the ZIRP macro economic environment.

Google allowed their engineers 20% time. Before ZIRP.

0 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yanis_Varoufakis#Academic_care...

Re: Jeff Lawson steps down as CEO of Twilio

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm somewhat on top of the stock, here's my not financial advice take: 1. Growth rate slowed such that valuations had to come down (went from inevitable overtaking of Salesforce in size, to decades of growth required) 2. Environment -- Cashflow negative meaning another raise was required without fiscal controls and in a high interest environment that's really tough. A return to office end of covid anxiety meant the C…

The new CEO will be selling the company now. Hold on.

I truly hope it's not the divide and sell that activists have been pushing for. The time to sell to CRM or ADBE was during pandemic highs, now both those are probably more interested in AI hype. I think AWS or another cloud provider would be an interesting pairing though, but with Jeff out so does the hopes of an Amazon relationship besides 2023's announcement

https://investors.twilio.com/news/news-details/2023/AWS-and-...

Re: Jeff Lawson steps down as CEO of Twilio

#180
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wanna build a video game that teaches developers how to code and use Twilio? Let's try it! Wanna build an AI application with Tony Hawk and have Tony Hawk debug the code live on stage? Sure! These are the strange effects of ZIRP and infinite QE. Many companies never had to care at all about profit and could just do things "for fun", and still see valuations skyrocket as long as they hired more people. What a time.

In my 32 years in the industry the best performing companies always did these things regardless of the macroeconomic climate. It’s when you ceded leadership to the accountants and shifted gears to maintenance mode that companies stopped growing. You never did these things for fun, you did these things because they had some knock on effect that made it potentially worth it, and in a portfolio of many small bets some w…

> In my 32 years in the industry the best performing companies always did these things regardless of the macroeconomic climate.

My anecdote, FWIW, is that some of the worst performing startups do these tricks too.

There's something about flashy events and boondoggles that sound good on LinkedIn that draws bad founders into spending waaay too much on parties and fun activities.

Stripe obviously isn't in that category, but never assume that because a company spends a lot on parties and events that they're doing well.

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