Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Studies suggest that relying on will power to break habits is hopeless (2019)

newyorker.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 241 posts

Re: Studies suggest that relying on will power to break habits is hopeless (2019)

#171

Post by leereeves »

miggol wrote: post #164

I enjoyed the article. Even though I've heard most of it before, I'm the kind of person that really needs reminding of the core message. Somehow it's so easy to fall back into the "willpower is the trick" mindset. Perhaps because it's reinforced so heavily in popular culture, as the article mentions. The article does however, in my opinion, commit a crime in bringing up the often misrepresented marshmellow experiment…

Well said. It's often presented as a study on willpower, self-control, delayed gratification, etc, but it's also a study about trust.

And looking at it that way, it's not surprising that a child who grows up in an environment where strangers are trustworthy will be more successful than a child who doesn't.

Perhaps the sad take-away should be that a large majority of us lack the supportive environment required to succeed in life.

Re: Studies suggest that relying on will power to break habits is hopeless (2019)

#172

Post by ThatMedicIsASpy »

andrewstuart wrote: post #54

Someone explained to me that the subconscious mind does not like giving up something that it likes in exchange for nothing. Say for example you want to give up smoking. So don't give up. Instead, just stop that behavior for the present time - then your subconscious is not fighting you. So you want a cigarette? Well sure OK you can have one, but defer that decision to have it for some period of time. Maybe start with…

I quit biting my nails for a few days and then I always come back to it. I just can't. Nails are more accessible than going for a smoke.

The only way to fight back is keeping the mouth busy with gum, toothpicks, pens, whatevers.

Re: Studies suggest that relying on will power to break habits is hopeless (2019)

#173

Post by LordDragonfang »

andrewstuart wrote: post #144
anon84873628 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was posted to HN a few months back and I found it quite interesting: https://gwern.net/nicotine Nicotine itself is very effective at causing the brain to form habits. So that makes quitting cigarettes extra hard! But we may be able to use it as a tool for developing other habits. Glad you managed to find a solution that worked for you. Your technique seems good to stop doing something. But how do you make yourse…

>>But how do you make yourself start doing something you don't want to do? Like going to the gym? Well, the same person who advised me on the deferral strategy also advised me on your question. He said - specifically on the topic of going to the gym and exercising - (paraphrased): "Stop looking for techniques and mind tricks, for some things in life you must simply take action. You cannot avoid taking action if you w…

>You know what the action required is, do it

>If you do something, it is because you prioritised it higher then everything else.

This is exactly the sort of non-actionable advice that the article says doesn't work, though. Saying that you just need to "prioritize" something is the same as saying you just need to focus more willpower - it doesn't work for most people.

What it sounds like your friend did is used a mind trick to create a habit so it was a required part of his routine, which made it easier.

Re: Studies suggest that relying on will power to break habits is hopeless (2019)

#174

Post by em-bee »

MarkSweep wrote: post #168
SilasX wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haha I remember seeing that and thinking … hm, that … would probably be more successful than most of their PSAs. https://www.theonion.com/new-anti-smoking-ads-warn-teens-its...

I could not get the video to load; I assume this video on YouTube is the same one: https://youtu.be/82x9pzHkHK4

that's the one

Re: Studies suggest that relying on will power to break habits is hopeless (2019)

#175

Post by lazide »

pugz wrote: post #148
lannisterstark wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>(this section is just a joke I do not commit crimes) It's not a crime if you both consent.

That's actually an interesting one - it depends on your jurisdiction. E.g. in all Australian jurisdictions (and quite a few US states), one cannot consent to serious bodily harm. Some jurisdictions allow consent as a defence for "lower" assaults that don't meet the threshold of serious bodily harm. In Australia (I'm not as familiar with other countries), there are usually explicit carve-outs for sports like boxing, b…

Clearly the answer is organized slap fighting. ;)

Re: Studies suggest that relying on will power to break habits is hopeless (2019)

#176

Post by lazide »

analog31 wrote: post #67
hinkley wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buying groceries when you’re feeling good, and changing your route through the store to groom yourself for success instead of failure, are common, effective bits of advice for weight loss and healthy eating. Most of the garbage really is in the middle of the store, and I imagine myself diving into deep water to grab ketchup, soup, flour. Get in, get out, no sightseeing.

My shopping list is sequential by aisle, so I don't go down the aisle if it's not on my list. I wonder if shopping online for delivery helps curb impulse buying

Online delivery unfortunately makes it almost impossible to ‘pick an aisle’, as you’re going to get exposed to dark patterns and ads constantly while interacting with the site.

You also can’t actually see what you’re buying (or feel/touch the actual box), which greatly increases the odds of catching shenanigans.

Re: Studies suggest that relying on will power to break habits is hopeless (2019)

#177

Post by s1artibartfast »

rtsil wrote: post #155
s1artibartfast wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that is because it is a terrible message. It isnt an either/or situation, and successful breaking habits does rely on willpower, just not willpower alone . Smart strategy can make things easier , but there is no strategy that makes it easier to stop heroin than do to keep it. It advertises the idea that with the right circumstances, you can make it so that the desirable option is always the easiest option - t…

To break a habit, you have to replace it with a different habit. Willpower is one of the ways to do that, but others are more successful on more people. The reason why so many people hire a coach for physical activities, diet or even life decisions isn't so much that these are extremely specialized domains that need high expertise; it's that having someone make the decision, i.e. not relying on willpower, is often mo…

I think there is a fundamental misalignment here about what constitutes willpower.

The coach isn't a contradiction to willpower. You still make the choice to get up and go when you are lazy, you have just changed the incentives and accountability.

It also takes willpower and initiative to hire a coach.

If you avoid anything difficult and quit the second things get hard, no a mount of support will help.

By all means, use every trick in the book to make it easier. However, you are setting yourself up for failure in life if you avoid everything that requires effort, or think everything can be made easy with enough tricks

Re: Studies suggest that relying on will power to break habits is hopeless (2019)

#178

Post by [deleted] »

andrewstuart wrote: post #144
anon84873628 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was posted to HN a few months back and I found it quite interesting: https://gwern.net/nicotine Nicotine itself is very effective at causing the brain to form habits. So that makes quitting cigarettes extra hard! But we may be able to use it as a tool for developing other habits. Glad you managed to find a solution that worked for you. Your technique seems good to stop doing something. But how do you make yourse…

>>But how do you make yourself start doing something you don't want to do? Like going to the gym? Well, the same person who advised me on the deferral strategy also advised me on your question. He said - specifically on the topic of going to the gym and exercising - (paraphrased): "Stop looking for techniques and mind tricks, for some things in life you must simply take action. You cannot avoid taking action if you w…

[deleted]

Re: Studies suggest that relying on will power to break habits is hopeless (2019)

#179

Post by tacocataco »

vanjajaja1 wrote: post #25

This kind of study in this kind of magazine smells like they're pushing more 'dont even try' / 'no free will' propaganda... but I do with the premise. Relying on will power to execute is a set up for failure, better to rely on will power to create an environment that helps you succeed.

I like how you bring up environment.

You can't therapy your way out of a terrible living situation. That's why it's important for people struggling mentally or otherwise to just simply hang on if they're unable to work on a solution.

Perhaps the wind of the storm will push you to safer waters some day.

Re: Studies suggest that relying on will power to break habits is hopeless (2019)

#180

Post by augustk »

leereeves wrote: post #171
miggol wrote: post #164

I enjoyed the article. Even though I've heard most of it before, I'm the kind of person that really needs reminding of the core message. Somehow it's so easy to fall back into the "willpower is the trick" mindset. Perhaps because it's reinforced so heavily in popular culture, as the article mentions. The article does however, in my opinion, commit a crime in bringing up the often misrepresented marshmellow experiment…

Well said. It's often presented as a study on willpower, self-control, delayed gratification, etc, but it's also a study about trust. And looking at it that way, it's not surprising that a child who grows up in an environment where strangers are trustworthy will be more successful than a child who doesn't. Perhaps the sad take-away should be that a large majority of us lack the supportive environment required to succ…

Another source of error is that not all children are equally obsessed with candy.
Post reply on HN