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"That's Why You Don't Have Any Friends."

joethepeacock.blogspot.co.uk

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Re: "That's Why You Don't Have Any Friends."

#171

Post by vacri »

Gring wrote: post #138
tjoff wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The by far most important thing you learn in school is being social. That dwarfs everything else. Yes, being bullied sucks but keep in mind that your kids will have to meet other kids as well, and if they are homeschooled they are going to appear weird just because they don't go to school and thus don't behave the same in crowds as everyone else does (trust me, this gets noticed instantly). That alone is basis enough…

What? No. Absolutely not. Being bullied is not because you behave wrongly. You're being bullied because they others are assholes. In the adult realm, there are still people behaving differently. And they're not getting bullied. You know why not? Because there is a state that punishes bullying among adults . We need only one thing: punish bullying among non-adults. Currently they get a free pass. And every generation…

Adults frequently bully other adults, both in work and leisure time.

Re: "That's Why You Don't Have Any Friends."

#172

Post by dkarl »

dkrich wrote: post #135
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #68

I'm about as asocial and celebratory of diversity as they come, and I love this essay, especially the conversational style. But I'd be careful not to take this argument too far into sophistry. In school people clan and desperately look for some identity to copy. This leads to all the terrible social behavior you see in most secondary and high school in the U.S. Somebody calling you "weird" can really be a badge of ho…

I completely agree. I don't really think there is any net gain to having people dislike you. I guess the optimal situation would be to do what you like but still have lots of friends from a wide variety of groups like you. It never hurts to have more friends, but it can definitely be a setback to not have any and worse, fall into a repetitive cycle where you constantly vilify people because they associate with a grou…

I like to imagine the Dalai Lama and George W. Bush getting stuck in a hotel room together. They'd probably have a wonderful time. We tend to assume that social relations are built on sameness, but people who can't build relationships without sharing every experience and attitude down to the last concrete detail are only one step more socially advanced than people who fail to build relationships at all. People who like to conform and be tribal have no need for the ability to find commonality across a superficial divide, but for weirdos, it's an essential skill. (Which I lack completely, of course, but here's to trying.)

Re: "That's Why You Don't Have Any Friends."

#173

Post by earbitscom »

dclowd9901 wrote: post #104
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #68

I'm about as asocial and celebratory of diversity as they come, and I love this essay, especially the conversational style. But I'd be careful not to take this argument too far into sophistry. In school people clan and desperately look for some identity to copy. This leads to all the terrible social behavior you see in most secondary and high school in the U.S. Somebody calling you "weird" can really be a badge of ho…

Why does every post on here need someone coming in explaining how it's wrong in some way. It's not only disingenuous, but outright wrong to assume the author was saying "be weird for the sake of being weird." He's saying he is weird, and that's OK, just he won't see a lot of good in it in high school. You're acting like he's advocating becoming a hipster, a straw man you invented.

Completely agree. Inspiring post. The author never said anything besides, don't conform, stay true to yourself. A disclaimer wasn't needed, and I rolled my eyes the minute I started reading the parent comment.

Re: "That's Why You Don't Have Any Friends."

#174

Post by alttag »

js2 wrote: post #72
abraxasz wrote: post #60

I like the article, a lot. But I have some reserve with the advice given. In my experience, many people would actually be glad to hangout with someone weird if he gives them some time to get used to it, and take it easy on the weirdness at first. I consider myself weird (my weirdness is that I mostly don't give a shit about conventional thinking and politically correct things. I just love a good argument, to the poin…

I'm with you right up to that part about not homeschooling your kids (homeschool dad here). But I'll let it go since I think you may just be trying to provoke an argument. :) (Unless you've homeschooled, I don't think you have any idea how much social interaction homeschool kids can get; we don't just sit at home all day.) Edit: I see comments below on homeschooling and from homeschoolers. Our kids get a ton of socia…

The great part (or the problem) is that it depends on the parents. And on the kids.

I was homeschooled for a bit, but it got to be too much for my mother (there were six of us kids at the time), so we went to public school. I needed the socialization. Even though I spent the majority of my time in public schools, I still didn't get that part quite right.

My kid brother (7 of 8) was home schooled later in life. Highly social. Smart too. But because his secondary education was primarily influenced by our mother, he's academically weak in the same subject she is. ... particularly math and science. The six oldest of us disagreed with their decision to home school through high school (we'd all been h/s-ed at some point in elementary and gone to a public high school).

Bottom line is, it depends. It may be the right decision for some.

Unfortunately, we often encounter too many examples of those that it wasn't the best solution for their circumstances. The ones who get it right often don't advertise their origin, be they "normal" or "brilliant." So, societally, we're left with a negative bias.

Re: "That's Why You Don't Have Any Friends."

#175

Post by dools »

Good story. As a side note: why do men have to be so mind numbingly boring? I had the misfortune of hanging out with a bunch of guys I didn't really know recently and the talk was similar to that described here (sports, women, avoidance of anything actually interesting like religion or politics). It was so boring I just left and went back to work.

As a gender, I think men have a lot to answer for in terms of conversation skills. Stop being so boring and predictable. Stop talking about sports as a habit.

Re: "That's Why You Don't Have Any Friends."

#176

Post by rdtsc »

saulrh wrote: post #118
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #68

I'm about as asocial and celebratory of diversity as they come, and I love this essay, especially the conversational style. But I'd be careful not to take this argument too far into sophistry. In school people clan and desperately look for some identity to copy. This leads to all the terrible social behavior you see in most secondary and high school in the U.S. Somebody calling you "weird" can really be a badge of ho…

In school people clan and desperately look for some identity to copy. This struck me. The most intelligent and self-aware of my friends seem to have consciously chosen some person or character to copy in high school or middle school. Perhaps this is a clever way to satisfy the urge while still being self-defined. I emulated the classic mad scientist archetype, for example, and it'd led me to reasonable success. I als…

Ha interesting! I was in the business of copying the mannerisms and styles of some of my college professors. It was fun, it was sort of a game I played.

Some cultures engage in this copying behavior. I noticed Japanese do it quite often. They will emulate behavior and outward appearance of other cultures (American, European) without seemingly understanding the meaning of such behaviors. It hard to describe, if you see it, you'll know it.

Re: "That's Why You Don't Have Any Friends."

#177

Post by larrys »

dkarl wrote: post #172
dkrich wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree. I don't really think there is any net gain to having people dislike you. I guess the optimal situation would be to do what you like but still have lots of friends from a wide variety of groups like you. It never hurts to have more friends, but it can definitely be a setback to not have any and worse, fall into a repetitive cycle where you constantly vilify people because they associate with a grou…

I like to imagine the Dalai Lama and George W. Bush getting stuck in a hotel room together. They'd probably have a wonderful time. We tend to assume that social relations are built on sameness, but people who can't build relationships without sharing every experience and attitude down to the last concrete detail are only one step more socially advanced than people who fail to build relationships at all. People who li…

"getting stuck in a hotel room together."

"that social relations are built on sameness'

There is a saying, perhaps somebody know the exact wording, but something like "all bond together over the same goal (or enemy)"

In the case of Bush and the Dalai Lama they are "stuck". The "sameness" is the bond you form trying to get out of the room. If they have a wonderful time it's because of the experience bonding toward that goal.

Re: "That's Why You Don't Have Any Friends."

#178

Post by Retric »

pascalr wrote: post #161
dclowd9901 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does every post on here need someone coming in explaining how it's wrong in some way. It's not only disingenuous, but outright wrong to assume the author was saying "be weird for the sake of being weird." He's saying he is weird, and that's OK, just he won't see a lot of good in it in high school. You're acting like he's advocating becoming a hipster, a straw man you invented.

I barely look at comments now because it's too often about little flaws and rarely about the main idea. You don't learn by arguing, it's pointless. Someone cannot be told the truth, he has to learn it by himself. "I can only show you the door, you have to walk through it.", Morpheus. I'd like to see comments about how to improve the idea and making even better, but I haven't found a single comment that does this yet.…

Don't read to far into kids's movies.

http://xkcd.com/566/

Re: "That's Why You Don't Have Any Friends."

#179

Post by dkarl »

EricDeb wrote: post #166
omgsean wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I just love a good argument, to the point where I would provoke people I barely know into arguments about politics, religion, whatever. This right here is the problem with "embrace your weirdness!" posts. You're not being weird or unique, you're just ignoring social cues and deliberately making people uncomfortable. If your weirdness is that you're super into physics or anime or whatever then that's great, but if yo…

Agree. If you've ever seen Curb your Enthusiasm Larry David demonstrates this perfectly. He just always pushes it too far. Being weird is actually totally acceptable if you are confident and respond to basic social cues.

Yep, no need to be a dick about it. You never get anything worthwhile out of people that way anyway. That's my take, anyway. Here's what the real Larry David says about the Larry David he plays on TV:

TV Larry is blunt and brutally honest, thriving on confrontational situations, whereas the real Larry avoids them like the plague. He has said before he wishes he was like the character on screen. So, I ask, what stops him? “Somebody would beat me up every day. You can’t be that honest and function in society. These confrontations frighten me so I avoid them and save it up for the show. It’s a little bit of a fantasy.”

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/2/f9b4936c-7a53-11e1-9c77-00144...

Concerns for personal safety aside, whatever purposes such confrontations could serve, stimulation is not among them. Hostility and defensiveness are not educational for either party.

Re: "That's Why You Don't Have Any Friends."

#180

Post by LesZedCB »

ScottBurson wrote: post #85
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #68

I'm about as asocial and celebratory of diversity as they come, and I love this essay, especially the conversational style. But I'd be careful not to take this argument too far into sophistry. In school people clan and desperately look for some identity to copy. This leads to all the terrible social behavior you see in most secondary and high school in the U.S. Somebody calling you "weird" can really be a badge of ho…

Yes, except that teenagers don't know who they are yet. They have to experiment, trying out various identities and behaviors until they figure out what fits them and what doesn't. So defining themselves in terms of others, whether by similarity or by difference, is to some degree inevitable. They do need to be encouraged to grow out of it, though, so your point is very valid.

Well, and I would say it may not even be a bad thing for a certain period. Most of childhood development is imitation. We learn communication, behavior, etc, from our parents when very young. The same imitation exists up until some point. However at some point, it becomes unhealthy.
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