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Apollo 11 vs. USB-C Chargers (2020)

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171–180 of 209 posts

Re: Apollo 11 vs. USB-C Chargers (2020)

#171
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that infinite precision requires infinite settling time. (Which I guess is the analogue computing version of arithmetic not being O(1) even though it is usually modelled that way.)

Infinite precision is just analog's version of an infinitely-long tape.

But even with infinite precision, how do you build a universal analog computer? And how do you program it?

Re: Apollo 11 vs. USB-C Chargers (2020)

#172
post #121
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can? How?

as i understand it, with infinite precision; the real numbers within some range, say -15 volts to +15 volts, have a bijection to infinite strings of bits (some infinitesimally small fraction of which are all zeroes after a finite count). with things like the logistic map you can amplify arbitrarily small differences into totally different system trajectories; usually when we plot bifurcation diagrams from the logisti…

It's much worse than that. There is this little thing called Planck's constant, and there's this other little thing called the second law of thermodynamics. So even if you allow yourself arbitrarily advanced technology I don't see how you're doing to make it work without new physics.

Re: Apollo 11 vs. USB-C Chargers (2020)

#173
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a great technique to avoid common-mode failures.

Do you have data to back that claim up? I remember reading evidence to the contrary, namely that programmers working on the same problem -- even in different environments -- tend to produce roughly the same set of bugs. The conclusion of that study was that parallel development mainly accomplishes a false sense of security, and most of the additional reliability in those projects came from other sound engineering tec…

After some searchengineering I found Knight and Leveson (1986) “AN EXPERIMENTAL EVALUATION OF THE ASSUMPTION OF INDEPENDENCE IN MULTI-VERSION PROGRAMMING” which my memory tells me us the classic paper on common failure modes in reliability via N-version software which I was taught about in my undergrad degree http://sunnyday.mit.edu/papers.html#ft

Leveson also wrote the report on Therac 25.

Re: Apollo 11 vs. USB-C Chargers (2020)

#174
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that infinite precision requires infinite settling time. (Which I guess is the analogue computing version of arithmetic not being O(1) even though it is usually modelled that way.)

Infinite precision is just analog's version of an infinitely-long tape.

Right :-) I prefer to say a Turing machine’s tape is “unbounded” rather than “infinite” because it supports calculations of arbitrarily large but finite size. So in the analogue case, I would say unbounded precision and unbounded waiting time.

Re: Apollo 11 vs. USB-C Chargers (2020)

#175
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the Apollo Guidance Computer, changing the program meant manually re-weaving wires through or around tiny magnet rings. A good part of the cost of the computer was the time spent painstakingly weaving the wires to store the program.

Pardon me, but why would you have to re-weave wires around magnetic rings? The magnetic rings are for storing data; the whole point is that you can change the data without rewiring the memory. If you have to re-wire permanent storage (e.g. program storage), that's equivalent to creating a mask ROM, which is basically just two funny-shaped sheets of conductor. There's no need for magnetic rings.

No, I'm not talking about magnetic core memory. Core rope memory also used little magnetic rings.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Core_rope_memory input wires were energized, and they were coupled (or not) to the output wires depending on if they shared a magnetic ring (or not).

Re: Apollo 11 vs. USB-C Chargers (2020)

#176
post #82

I'm curious - are there any ways of finding out the precise hardware that's used in these small-scale devices that are generally not considered to be computers (like smartphone chargers) without actually having to take them apart? Are there special datasheets, or perhaps some documents for government certification, or anything like it? I've always been fascinated with the barebones, low-spec hardware that runs mundan…

Generally no but taking them apart to look at the chips inside is easy. Fwiw everything has a CPU in it these days. Actually that's been true since the 70s. Your old 1970's keyboard had a fully programmable CPU in it. Typically an Intel MCS-48 variant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_MCS-48#Uses

Today it's even more the case. You have fully programmable CPUs in your keyboard, trackpad, mouse, all usb devices, etc.

Re: Apollo 11 vs. USB-C Chargers (2020)

#177
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you expect there to be one? It’s all the same stuff and has been for decades.

I expect nation state actors to have immensely more access to computing power than the commercial sector, is that controversial?

If you look at the top supercomputers, US national labs occupy most of the top 10. But they aren’t enormously larger than the others. They are also built of out of standard parts. I’m surprised that they are recent, I expected the government to be slow and behind.

What do you expect US government to do with lots of computing power? I wouldn’t expect military to need supercomputers. Maybe the NSA would have a lot for cracking something or surveillance. But the big tech companies have more.

Re: Apollo 11 vs. USB-C Chargers (2020)

#178
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that infinite precision requires infinite settling time. (Which I guess is the analogue computing version of arithmetic not being O(1) even though it is usually modelled that way.)

Infinite precision is just analog's version of an infinitely-long tape.

Infinite precision is exponentially more difficult. It's very easy to have unbounded tape, with a big buffer of tape and some kind of "factory" that makes more tape when you get near the edge. Unbounded precision? Not going to happen in a real machine. You get to have several digits and no more.

Re: Apollo 11 vs. USB-C Chargers (2020)

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you explain "above arithmetic in the hierarchy" in a few words, TIA, never heard of this

Nope. The source page links to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arithmetical_hierarchy . I can't figure it out. An HN comment search, https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu... , finds a few more lay examples, with https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21210043 by dwohnitmok being the easiest for me to somewhat make sense of. I think the idea is, suppose you have an oracle which tells you if a Turnin…

This appears to discuss it a bit more. Not certain if it's more helpful than the comment (still going through it), but it does cover it more in detail.

https://risingentropy.com/the-arithmetic-hierarchy-and-compu...

Re: Apollo 11 vs. USB-C Chargers (2020)

#180
post #82

I'm curious - are there any ways of finding out the precise hardware that's used in these small-scale devices that are generally not considered to be computers (like smartphone chargers) without actually having to take them apart? Are there special datasheets, or perhaps some documents for government certification, or anything like it? I've always been fascinated with the barebones, low-spec hardware that runs mundan…

Wireless devices go through an FCC certification process that publishes teardowns. And iFixit posts.
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