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Apple allows some iOS apps to track user locations via lists of nearby SSIDs

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Re: Apple allows some iOS apps to track user locations via lists of nearby SSIDs

#171

Post by Arch485 »

gruez wrote: post #106
andirk wrote: post #62

Whether the user is aware and opt _in_ is the issue, right? But all of the network signals that are triggered by web applications, phone apps, OS, isn't it almost always possible to get SOME information about a user's geo location? There's a theory that Silk Road's Ross Ulbricht leaked his location via a Captcha on a website, despite actively covering his tracks. I think Bitcoin's Satoshi is/was an Australian bloke l…

>There's a theory that Silk Road's Ross Ulbricht leaked his location via a Captcha on a website, despite actively covering his tracks. How?

Assuming this is actually the case, probably a lot of heuristics that got "close enough" to his actual location.

Re: Apple allows some iOS apps to track user locations via lists of nearby SSIDs

#172

Post by stavros »

freedomben wrote: post #146
pixl97 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly correct, though you don't want to admit it's the case it seems. I mean, we just allowed Car Manufactures to pump as much contact data and location data as they can off your phones and sell it to whomever they'd like risk free and legally. We have laws against physical trespassing, but when it comes to 'data' trespassing on applications that you install or come with your phone we're still in the wild w…

I think you're both right. the misunderstanding here is a difference between is and ought. pixl97 is describing the current state of things, not saying they ought be this way (please correct me if I'm wrong). stavros is describing the way things ought to be.

Yes, exactly. It is that way, but it should be illegal to do that.

Re: Apple allows some iOS apps to track user locations via lists of nearby SSIDs

#173

Post by dwaite »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #163
readams wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't think location is useful for a map ... ?

It wants precise location — which I take to mean war-driving WiFi. GPS I am okay with for a map app.

IIRC, Non-precise location is cell tower level location or the like, possibly a 12 square mile area. It is also very cheap if the device is already connected to a tower.

Precise location may be from Apple's SSID database or from a GPS system.

Non-precise location may help with getting more appropriate search results but won't help you with turn-by-turn navigation.

Re: Apple allows some iOS apps to track user locations via lists of nearby SSIDs

#174

Post by kevinsync »

Whenever location data collection comes up, I always think about that Seinfeld episode where Kramer is receiving misdialed MovieFone calls -- at first he just talks to the person and reads the movie times out of the newspaper. Very helpful.

Eventually, he starts emulating the phone menus, asking the caller "Using your touch-tone keypad, please enter the first three letters of the movie title, now."

When this doesn't work, he blurts out "Why don't you just tell me the movie you want to see???"

Why in the holy hell do app developers who are trying to provide some kind of location-specific data not just ASK YOU WHERE YOU ARE? "I'm in Los Angeles" would suffice 99% of the time. If you go to Idaho, and care enough, change your location in that app -- now you get local bulletins about russet potatoes instead of encampment fires.

This is a rhetorical question, no need to answer it, just screaming into the void.

Re: Apple allows some iOS apps to track user locations via lists of nearby SSIDs

#175

Post by dylan604 »

stavros wrote: post #64
dylan604 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would absolutely be concerned about a flashlight app doing all the nefarious things. A flashlight app? Today? Still? Really? It's one of those apps that's absolutely useless since the OS provides this feature natively now. It is absolutely the type of app I would assume has no reason other than harvesting data.

You're conflating "utility to user" with "utility to developer". A flashlight app has no utility to the user, it doesn't really matter to me that it's useful to its developer (for collecting my personal data).

I'm not conflating anything. You didn't comprehend what I wrote.

Re: Apple allows some iOS apps to track user locations via lists of nearby SSIDs

#176

Post by _heimdall »

paxys wrote: post #105

Reading through the linked docs, this API seems to specifically be for apps created by owners of WiFi hotspots to help users connect to those hotspots ( https://developer.apple.com/documentation/networkextension/h... ). > NEHotspotHelper allows your app to participate in the process of authenticating with hotspot networks, that is, Wi-Fi networks where the user must interact with the network to gain access to the wid…

Its a more basic question to me, why do these apps need a special entitlement? Couldn't they ask users for permissions like any other app, presumably with a good reason to go along with it since location is needed for some features?

Re: Apple allows some iOS apps to track user locations via lists of nearby SSIDs

#177

Post by sumuyuda »

rkunde wrote: post #100
layer8 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a way for an end user to see which apps have this entitlement?

I don’t think you can unless you have a jailbroken device. If I remember correctly, entitlements are store in the AppStore receipt file.

You can view the entitlements from the extracted ipa by using the codesign tool. So it is totally possible to see if an app has this entitlement.

Re: Apple allows some iOS apps to track user locations via lists of nearby SSIDs

#178

Post by samstave »

n2d4 wrote: post #133
paxys wrote: post #105

Reading through the linked docs, this API seems to specifically be for apps created by owners of WiFi hotspots to help users connect to those hotspots ( https://developer.apple.com/documentation/networkextension/h... ). > NEHotspotHelper allows your app to participate in the process of authenticating with hotspot networks, that is, Wi-Fi networks where the user must interact with the network to gain access to the wid…

I don't know about Alipay, but afaict WeChat needs this feature for WeChat Wifi, which lets users connect to internet hotspots from their WeChat accounts https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s?__biz=MzI1NjA0NzQzOQ==&mid=265026...

The complexities and capabilities in the Chinese(well, most asia) mobile market are remarkable.

I always find it funny when people boast about how great certain things are in the US without ever have traveled to HK, Singapore, Tokyo, Beijing etc...

Most people dont realize just how entangled mobile life is in Asia, way more than in the US.

Re: Apple allows some iOS apps to track user locations via lists of nearby SSIDs

#179

Post by ryandrake »

kevinsync wrote: post #174

Whenever location data collection comes up, I always think about that Seinfeld episode where Kramer is receiving misdialed MovieFone calls -- at first he just talks to the person and reads the movie times out of the newspaper. Very helpful. Eventually, he starts emulating the phone menus, asking the caller "Using your touch-tone keypad, please enter the first three letters of the movie title, now." When this doesn't…

I know you said not to answer, but for everyone else, apps can already do this using the OS's native permission controls, as of iOS 13 with the "Allow Once" option and as of Android 11 with the "Only this time" option.

Re: Apple allows some iOS apps to track user locations via lists of nearby SSIDs

#180

Post by WendyTheWillow »

kevinsync wrote: post #174

Whenever location data collection comes up, I always think about that Seinfeld episode where Kramer is receiving misdialed MovieFone calls -- at first he just talks to the person and reads the movie times out of the newspaper. Very helpful. Eventually, he starts emulating the phone menus, asking the caller "Using your touch-tone keypad, please enter the first three letters of the movie title, now." When this doesn't…

You want to change your location in every app manually, even when your device has a GPS receiver installed?
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