Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

I Learned to Speak Four Languages in a Few Years: Here’s How

lifehacker.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 187 posts

Re: I Learned to Speak Four Languages in a Few Years: Here’s How

#171

Post by w1ntermute »

chastened wrote: post #150
soc wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

5000? I have close to 8000 in japanese and I consider myself still a beginner. Native is at least 20000-25000. As long as you are continuing to learn then 5000 is a nice start, but you are not going to read novels and speak about broad topics with that vocabulary.

The average vocabulary of the average person in their NATIVE TONGUE is just over 3500 words (it varies a lot from culture to culture). The average vocabulary of a University Graduate in the Arts is 10-12000 words. In the sciences it varies greatly, chemistry, biology and medicine being the most demanding at >15,000. Someone with a vocabulary of 20-25000 words would be highly educated or very well read, or an speciali…

I don't know where you got that idea from, but I took an online test for English (which is my native language) vocabulary, and found that I knew about 30000 words. And I wouldn't consider myself to be that unusual.

Re: I Learned to Speak Four Languages in a Few Years: Here’s How

#172

Post by chastened »

grepherder wrote: post #141
chastened wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> There's just so much the brain can absorb in a short time. Daniel Tammet learned Icelandic in one week. I would be interested to see what backs your claim that the brain can only absorb so much in a short time. I think both you and the GP are projecting YOUR limitations onto everyone else. The brain can and does absorb a massive amount of information each and every day. Training the conscious mind to direct that n…

>> Daniel Tammet learned Icelandic in one week. Your point? Daniel Tammet is an autistic savant. And some people have eidetic memory. There is little relevance unless we find a method to recreate these traits in "normal" people, there is by no means any evidence that every human has latent super powers. As a normal person having nevertheless high language aptitude, I reached C1 or very close to C1 in about 6-7 months…

Please accept my apology for disagreeing with you. I have only recently become aware of the rules here and I now understand that disagreement is frowned upon and can lead to being banned.

Re: I Learned to Speak Four Languages in a Few Years: Here’s How

#173

Post by ekianjo »

v0cab wrote: post #140
ekianjo wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree on the Japanese point. The way you build sentences is just TOO different. You can definitely learn Japanese and speak it as a "gaijin" (meaning using european-style sentences with Japanese words) but speaking Japanese like a Japanese takes tremendous efforts and a serious re-wiring of your own brain as to how you approach language. I'd seriously doubt if anyone can claim they can learn Japanese to a high level…

"Agree on the Japanese point. The way you build sentences is just TOO different. You can definitely learn Japanese and speak it as a "gaijin" (meaning using european-style sentences with Japanese words) but speaking Japanese like a Japanese takes tremendous efforts and a serious re-wiring of your own brain as to how you approach language." I don't agree with this. The way you have to 're-wire' your brain isn't too di…

No, the difficult part of japanese is not about vocabulary or funny symbols. I have a JLPT level 2 certification in Japanese and at this stage, the wording and kanjis is just about memory and practice. What's harder is to learn expressions, idioms, how to use them and how to understand them in different contexts. What you are saying is just like : "as long as you know words and alphabet, then you know the language". There's no way it is that simple.

And human languages are way more complicated and contrived than programming languages. I don't think you can make a reasonable argument to support that it's the same thing.

Re: I Learned to Speak Four Languages in a Few Years: Here’s How

#174

Post by ekianjo »

chastened wrote: post #127
ekianjo wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have seen a lot of foreigners learning French (being French myself, and exposed to international students/professionals in various situations) and I have to seriously doubt that claim as well. I have seen some Americans learning French very fast, in a matter of 6 months, enough to be able to communicate and work in French on a daily basis, but there is no way they could be qualified as producing "clear, well-struct…

>> There's just so much the brain can absorb in a short time. Daniel Tammet learned Icelandic in one week. I would be interested to see what backs your claim that the brain can only absorb so much in a short time. I think both you and the GP are projecting YOUR limitations onto everyone else. The brain can and does absorb a massive amount of information each and every day. Training the conscious mind to direct that n…

I guess you have never read anything about the brain works. The brain is not an organ to memorize, but an organ to forget. It's a filter for information. You won't remember in 30 minutes a series of 10 numbers you are asked to remember by heart, unless you are exposed to it many, many times. Memory works by repetition. That should be a good observation enough to say the brain is not very good at remembering things, since you need to feed it again and again the same information for it to remember it for a while.

Daniel Tammet is not an ordinary person. You are projecting HIS extraordinary capabilities onto everyone else, and you can see that 99.999999 % of the population is NOT anything like Tammet. So your point does not stand.

Re: I Learned to Speak Four Languages in a Few Years: Here’s How

#175

Post by v0cab »

ekianjo wrote: post #173
v0cab wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Agree on the Japanese point. The way you build sentences is just TOO different. You can definitely learn Japanese and speak it as a "gaijin" (meaning using european-style sentences with Japanese words) but speaking Japanese like a Japanese takes tremendous efforts and a serious re-wiring of your own brain as to how you approach language." I don't agree with this. The way you have to 're-wire' your brain isn't too di…

No, the difficult part of japanese is not about vocabulary or funny symbols. I have a JLPT level 2 certification in Japanese and at this stage, the wording and kanjis is just about memory and practice. What's harder is to learn expressions, idioms, how to use them and how to understand them in different contexts. What you are saying is just like : "as long as you know words and alphabet, then you know the language".…

> What's harder is to learn expressions, idioms, how to use them and how to understand them in different contexts.

Well, that's hard too. But knowing all the words involved makes it a whole lot easier.

I haven't had much success with SRS for Korean vocab. There are so many words that are just too similiar to each other.

> human languages are way more complicated and contrived than programming languages. I don't think you can make a reasonable argument to support that it's the same thing.

I don't claim it's the same thing; I'm just making a comparison. Something like switching from SVO to SOV order isn't particularly difficult for the average programmer. Idiomatic expressions with irregular grammar are going to be problematic, granted.

Re: I Learned to Speak Four Languages in a Few Years: Here’s How

#176

Post by oohaba »

mattm wrote: post #124
oohaba wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used RTK as well, except with the website kanji.koohii.com instead of Anki, to learn 50 kanji a day. Did that for 2 months before moving to Japan, started using Anki for vocab / grammar, and passed the JLPT 1 examination in less than a year and a half.

I'm learning Japanese now. Can I ask you some questions?

Sure, ask away, though email might be better!

Re: I Learned to Speak Four Languages in a Few Years: Here’s How

#177

Post by oohaba »

w1ntermute wrote: post #170
oohaba wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used RTK as well, except with the website kanji.koohii.com instead of Anki, to learn 50 kanji a day. Did that for 2 months before moving to Japan, started using Anki for vocab / grammar, and passed the JLPT 1 examination in less than a year and a half.

Haha, was anyone surprised when they found out you knew all the 常用漢字 even though you'd just come to Japan?

My senseis and American coworkers were, but knowing the meaning of individual kanji is still two steps away from learning the actual reading and usage in compound words （熟語）, so I still had no right to show off.

Re: I Learned to Speak Four Languages in a Few Years: Here’s How

#178

Post by chastened »

ekianjo wrote: post #174
chastened wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> There's just so much the brain can absorb in a short time. Daniel Tammet learned Icelandic in one week. I would be interested to see what backs your claim that the brain can only absorb so much in a short time. I think both you and the GP are projecting YOUR limitations onto everyone else. The brain can and does absorb a massive amount of information each and every day. Training the conscious mind to direct that n…

I guess you have never read anything about the brain works. The brain is not an organ to memorize, but an organ to forget. It's a filter for information. You won't remember in 30 minutes a series of 10 numbers you are asked to remember by heart, unless you are exposed to it many, many times. Memory works by repetition. That should be a good observation enough to say the brain is not very good at remembering things, s…

You are right, it's not my place to comment here. Please accept my apology for disagreeing with you.

Re: I Learned to Speak Four Languages in a Few Years: Here’s How

#179

Post by w1ntermute »

v0cab wrote: post #175
ekianjo wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the difficult part of japanese is not about vocabulary or funny symbols. I have a JLPT level 2 certification in Japanese and at this stage, the wording and kanjis is just about memory and practice. What's harder is to learn expressions, idioms, how to use them and how to understand them in different contexts. What you are saying is just like : "as long as you know words and alphabet, then you know the language".…

> What's harder is to learn expressions, idioms, how to use them and how to understand them in different contexts. Well, that's hard too. But knowing all the words involved makes it a whole lot easier. I haven't had much success with SRS for Korean vocab. There are so many words that are just too similiar to each other. > human languages are way more complicated and contrived than programming languages. I don't think…

> I haven't had much success with SRS for Korean vocab. There are so many words that are just too similiar to each other.

Are you studying words in isolation or in context? The latter approach makes things much easier.

Re: I Learned to Speak Four Languages in a Few Years: Here’s How

#180

Post by v0cab »

w1ntermute wrote: post #179
v0cab wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's harder is to learn expressions, idioms, how to use them and how to understand them in different contexts. Well, that's hard too. But knowing all the words involved makes it a whole lot easier. I haven't had much success with SRS for Korean vocab. There are so many words that are just too similiar to each other. > human languages are way more complicated and contrived than programming languages. I don't think…

> I haven't had much success with SRS for Korean vocab. There are so many words that are just too similiar to each other. Are you studying words in isolation or in context? The latter approach makes things much easier.

The SRS words were mostly in isolation. I agree now that studying in context does make it easier, but in that case how is an SRS useful?
Post reply on HN