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'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

aljazeera.com

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Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#171

Post by stoorafa »

dubcanada wrote: post #93
hiddencost wrote: post #70

My political awareness was forged by the 9/11 terrorist attacks and the American response. The core lesson: the point of a terrorist attack is to trigger an over reaction. America wildly over reacted and became fundamentally hostile to Arab and Muslim people. This reaction led to some of the most successful recruiting of radicals in generations. Israel's response to this crisis seems to have failed to learn from that…

Israel's response tends to stem from a history of oppression which is where it gets touchy. Jewish have not exactly been treated well for most of the 20th century. Not saying that is a reason to invoke that upon someone else, but it tends to be where most thoughts come from. A sense of if we don't do something we'll lose "our" home.

That’s an interesting parallel, Gazan’s response is also borne of a history of oppression. Living with food insecurity, being an intergenerational refugee unable to return to home a few miles away, watching family members harmed, etc seems to motivate a lot of Palestinian behavior.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#172

Post by mupuff1234 »

dfxm12 wrote: post #53
ameminator wrote: post #3

I honestly don't think this subject should be on here. I don't think it's possible for a coherent or respectful or even useful conversation to happen here. I haven't seen any conversation about this topic that hadn't gone to hell.

[flagged]

Statistically that seems quite improbable as Jews are only 0.2% of the worlds population vs the Arab and Muslim world (which majority supports Palestinians)

Edit: not to mention the CCP and Russia taking an anti Israel stance as well, both known to conduct massive online campaigns to align with their own agendas.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#173

Post by gtroja »

krembo wrote: post #26
noworriesnate wrote: post #13

> “When they spoke to us in Hebrew and we wouldn’t understand, they’d beat us up,” he continues. > “They hit me in the back where my kidneys are and my legs. They took my family, and I don’t know where they are,” he says, his voice breaking. > Before they were forced inside the warehouse, Israeli female soldiers came and spat on the men, Mohammed recalls. > In the warehouse, it was common for groups of five soldiers…

Since the source is AlJazeera can you at least take these testimonies with a grain of doubt?

I would do the other way around....

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#174

Post by enterprise_cog »

pgeorgi wrote: post #121
cassepipe wrote: post #56

Those are the most serious allegations: "The men and teenage boys were taken to a warehouse where they sat on a bare floor covered in scattered grains of rice. There they were beaten, interrogated and verbally abused. There was no sleep, and the grains of rice cut their skin as they sat there, undressed." A man claims: "Some people didn’t return from the torture sessions. We would hear their screams and then nothing.…

> 1. It has to happen in the same time as the agression There are still rockets flying out of Gaza into Israel. > 2. Its only purpose is to defend against the agression The people sending those rockets are in Gaza, so to stop them, Israel has to go there. > 3. The defense has to be proportionate That one is regularly the most difficult point of contention in individual self-defense. Hamas essentially goes by this pla…

[flagged]

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#175

Post by kamikazeturtles »

pgeorgi wrote: post #121
cassepipe wrote: post #56

Those are the most serious allegations: "The men and teenage boys were taken to a warehouse where they sat on a bare floor covered in scattered grains of rice. There they were beaten, interrogated and verbally abused. There was no sleep, and the grains of rice cut their skin as they sat there, undressed." A man claims: "Some people didn’t return from the torture sessions. We would hear their screams and then nothing.…

> 1. It has to happen in the same time as the agression There are still rockets flying out of Gaza into Israel. > 2. Its only purpose is to defend against the agression The people sending those rockets are in Gaza, so to stop them, Israel has to go there. > 3. The defense has to be proportionate That one is regularly the most difficult point of contention in individual self-defense. Hamas essentially goes by this pla…

1. How many though and is it enough to justify the response. Why not go after those targets exactly. I'm sure they can tell exactly where the rockets are being fired from

2. Maybe, Netanyahu not sending Hamas hundreds of millions of dollars to begin with would have been better

3. The "human shields" argument got old the moment it came out that half the buildings in Gaza were destroyed, more homes than Hamas fighters

There's no moral high ground here unless you can find a way to dehumanize Palestinians. And that's unacceptable.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#176

Post by noworriesnate »

dubcanada wrote: post #93
hiddencost wrote: post #70

My political awareness was forged by the 9/11 terrorist attacks and the American response. The core lesson: the point of a terrorist attack is to trigger an over reaction. America wildly over reacted and became fundamentally hostile to Arab and Muslim people. This reaction led to some of the most successful recruiting of radicals in generations. Israel's response to this crisis seems to have failed to learn from that…

Israel's response tends to stem from a history of oppression which is where it gets touchy. Jewish have not exactly been treated well for most of the 20th century. Not saying that is a reason to invoke that upon someone else, but it tends to be where most thoughts come from. A sense of if we don't do something we'll lose "our" home.

[flagged]

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#177

Post by lolinder »

hef19898 wrote: post #128
dubcanada wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel's response tends to stem from a history of oppression which is where it gets touchy. Jewish have not exactly been treated well for most of the 20th century. Not saying that is a reason to invoke that upon someone else, but it tends to be where most thoughts come from. A sense of if we don't do something we'll lose "our" home.

That explains what happened in 50s and 60s. Leveling Gaza in 2023 doesn't fall in that category, Hamas never had the power to do anything about Israel's existence as a state.

From the perspective of Israel's defense forces, Hamas doesn't have that power because Israel responds the way it does. I'd imagine that for many in Israel the lesson of the 60s is that if given an opening all of their neighbors will attack, so Israel cannot ever be seen as responding lukewarmly to an attack, even one by a party that couldn't destroy them singlehandedly.

(I'm not arguing that this position is correct, just trying to explain another possible perspective.)

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#178

Post by kamikazeturtles »

lornemalvo wrote: post #147
lossolo wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have been firing rockets for decades. They killed 28 people over 20 years with 20k+ rockets[1]. Israel killed 17 000 people in two months. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_...

You are reading very selectively (and I think fir a reason): > From 2004 to 2014, these attacks have killed 27 Israeli civilians, 5 foreign nationals, 5 IDF soldiers, and at least 11 Palestinians[11] and injured more than 1900 people.[12] Their main effect is their creation of widespread psychological trauma and disruption of daily life among the Israeli populace. Please at least try to stay true to the facts, even i…

What fact was op not true to?

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#179

Post by lornemalvo »

kamikazeturtles wrote: post #149
iddan wrote: post #136

[flagged]

I always saw it as the Israel-Palestine conflict has been ongoing for 75+ years with no resolution. It's a conflict that's symbolic of the deep divide of the historical imperial powers and the Global south that suffered from colonialism. I feel this is why people in different continents of the world react so differently to the conflict and why many find it so interesting.

Framing it as some kind of "(post-)colonial" conflict inevitably leads to skewing/biasing the whole analysis and is theoretically flawed.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#180

Post by anovick »

hiddencost wrote: post #70

My political awareness was forged by the 9/11 terrorist attacks and the American response. The core lesson: the point of a terrorist attack is to trigger an over reaction. America wildly over reacted and became fundamentally hostile to Arab and Muslim people. This reaction led to some of the most successful recruiting of radicals in generations. Israel's response to this crisis seems to have failed to learn from that…

One big difference:

Israel lives by the border of Gaza, right next to the terrorists that forged the October 7th attack.

Meanwhile, the US had no border with the belligerent terrorist organization's societies (Iraq, Syria, ME).

Would the US allow a terrorist organization that both DECLARES, has CAPABILITIES to, and HAS DEMONSTRATED INTENT to harm its citizens to live by its borders, and threaten with continued assaults? hell no.

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