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Code is run more than read

olano.dev

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Re: Code is run more than read

#171

Post by quietbritishjim »

rob74 wrote: post #33

TIL of ≹, which "articulates a relationship where neither of the two compared entities is greater or lesser than the other, yet they aren't necessarily equal either. This nuanced distinction is essential in areas where there are different ways to compare entities that aren't strictly numerical." ( https://www.mathematics-monster.com/symbols/Neither-Greater-... )

One example would be if you define one set A to be "less than" another B if A is a subset of B. Then ∅ Such a thing is called a partial ordering and a set of values with a partial ordering is called a partially ordered set or poset (pronounced Poe-set) for short.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partially_ordered_set

Re: Code is run more than read

#172

Post by Lutger »

rafaelmn wrote: post #111
nehal3m wrote: post #87

I think the corollary to the title (to turn it around on the author) is not 'Code is read more than written' but 'code that can't be read won't run for long'. Disclaimer: Experienced sysadmin trying to make a lateral move to development and as such a complete noob.

> code that can't be read won't run for long There's plenty of ossified code people are scared to touch because they don't understand it, but stake their business on it :)

Or just code that works and nobody wants or needs to spend money on changing. I've written such code, very crappy stuff. And then coming back to the client many, many years later, finding it all just humming along, driving their business critical applications without it or the computer it runs on ever having been updated once in 5 years or so. I was so surprised, and a bit scared.

Sometimes when you don't change anything, it just keeps working.

So I guess that makes it a very boring:

   code that can't be read won't be changed and will not be relevant for long, but not always

Re: Code is run more than read

#173

Post by benreesman »

nehal3m wrote: post #87

I think the corollary to the title (to turn it around on the author) is not 'Code is read more than written' but 'code that can't be read won't run for long'. Disclaimer: Experienced sysadmin trying to make a lateral move to development and as such a complete noob.

Welcome to this side of the shop, I hope we can all make you feel welcome. :)

Bad news: too few experienced ops people became one less!

Re: Code is run more than read

#174

Post by Lutger »

mch82 wrote: post #121
smt88 wrote: post #8

For many of us, running our code 1 billion times will cost less than a few minutes of a developer's time. Hell, I could spend $200 for a month of server time on AWS and run a lot of my (web API) code 100 billion times. Optimizing for human readers is always better until you're working on something that proves itself to be too slow to be economical anymore.

It seems like the author agrees with you and picked a confusing title for the article. The article ends with a set of equations: user > ops > dev biz > ops > dev biz ≹ user The conclusion seems to be that code exists in service to the end-user and the business. The last equation (≹) is a neat way of describing that both end-user and the business are equally important to the existence of the code, even though their ne…

Neat summary. I think many developers experience the degree to which biz and user diverges as a source of problems: the more divergence, the more problems.

Re: Code is run more than read

#175

Post by ric2b »

nehal3m wrote: post #87

I think the corollary to the title (to turn it around on the author) is not 'Code is read more than written' but 'code that can't be read won't run for long'. Disclaimer: Experienced sysadmin trying to make a lateral move to development and as such a complete noob.

The entire financial industry disagrees. Also can I interest you in coming out of retirement to explain your cobol code to other developers?

Re: Code is run more than read

#176

Post by couchand »

rafaelmn wrote: post #111
nehal3m wrote: post #87

I think the corollary to the title (to turn it around on the author) is not 'Code is read more than written' but 'code that can't be read won't run for long'. Disclaimer: Experienced sysadmin trying to make a lateral move to development and as such a complete noob.

> code that can't be read won't run for long There's plenty of ossified code people are scared to touch because they don't understand it, but stake their business on it :)

One of my clients is convinced that a short hunk of JavaScript code that nobody can clearly describe the behavior of is their most valuable asset.

Non-coders are weird.

Re: Code is run more than read

#178

Post by throwaway_08932 »

nine_k wrote: post #166
rob74 wrote: post #33

TIL of ≹, which "articulates a relationship where neither of the two compared entities is greater or lesser than the other, yet they aren't necessarily equal either. This nuanced distinction is essential in areas where there are different ways to compare entities that aren't strictly numerical." ( https://www.mathematics-monster.com/symbols/Neither-Greater-... )

I suppose that this glyph should result from a combination of emojis for apples and oranges.

[flagged]

Re: Code is run more than read

#179

Post by derangedHorse »

t43562 wrote: post #147

Some users are not using a system because they like it but because their company bought it. In those situations biz > user by definition and the developers end up having to cater to the needs of the middle managment of their customers rather than the needs of the actual users. The price of not doing this is failing to win the contract. Users then get locked in to whatever crap you have time to provide for them while…

Typically middle management are users as well, but they are a minority of the user base and use a different set of features (like reporting). So now this becomes a question of which users are prioritized and finding a balance between prioritizing the experience of the small number of users who hold power over the rest, and keeping the product usable enough for the rest of the users to provide some value in data to management.

Re: Code is run more than read

#180

Post by pards »

ric2b wrote: post #175
nehal3m wrote: post #87

I think the corollary to the title (to turn it around on the author) is not 'Code is read more than written' but 'code that can't be read won't run for long'. Disclaimer: Experienced sysadmin trying to make a lateral move to development and as such a complete noob.

The entire financial industry disagrees. Also can I interest you in coming out of retirement to explain your cobol code to other developers?

Or to help us understand that mission-critical MS Excel 5.0 spreadsheet? We need to retire that Windows 95 machine under John's desk.
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