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Charlie Munger – Feeling Like a Victim Is Perfectly Disastrous

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Re: Charlie Munger – Feeling Like a Victim Is Perfectly Disastrous

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. "He wouldn't have hit me if I had just kept my mouth shut, I know how angry it makes him when I ask about money." I want to say this position is despicable, but that's not a very charitable reading. But I fail to see how 'making everything your own fault' is in any way a healthy mechanism for dealing with others. Other people DO make mistakes. Other people have loads that they ARE expected to carry. Other peopl…

I'm talking strictly in a work setting. I don't absolve people, I just don't let myself stew over how it's their fault.

So now you have two workloads, and they have half a workload, and there are differing standards to which you and they are held?

I admit that I come at this question from a very bitter place. I have been woken up many, many, many times at 3 AM to deal with a problem that someone else caused, out of sheer laziness or incompetence. Those people suffered no consequences. Had I applied the same level of due care to my own duties in fixing the problem, however, the consequences would have been different, and significant. It is difficult, in such circumstances, not to stew over things a bit.

Re: Charlie Munger – Feeling Like a Victim Is Perfectly Disastrous

#172
post #95
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but not if Coca Cola's continuing growth depends on their ensuring that many many people are drinking it to excess

Not sure the math even comes out obviously in favour of someone who overindulges but dies an early death, vs someone who lives long and enjoys a coke every so often throughout that long life.

Of course it does. Let's just calculate the revenue of two scenairos:

Person A consumes 2L of Coke every day. Dies an early death at 45 year old. 2L coke is ~$2. From the age of 18 to 45 that person spent $19710.

Person B is good at consuming things with moderation. Drinks one 7.5 oz Coke per week, and lives to the ripe old age of 90. A ten pack of 7.5oz coke is ~$6. That person spent from the age of 18 to 90 about $2252.

You can of course tweak the assumptions, but the thing is sugar doesn't kill anyone that fast. People by and large don't drop dead in years from overconsumption of it.

Re: Charlie Munger – Feeling Like a Victim Is Perfectly Disastrous

#173

I love it. Without even knowing about this particular quote, this has been my standard for myself for some years now. The “it’s always your fault” concept is scary to some folks—and I understand why—but it’s changed my life since I adopted it years ago. Generally speaking, my framework is: 1. I’m NOT a victim. 2. I accept that everything that happens in my life is my fault. 3. I control the controllables; I can’t fix…

Oftentimes 3 and 4 can lead to you escaping everything which may make your big picture situation worse.

"It's becoming miserable to work at X because so-and-so is very challenging to work with".

You can't control so-and-so and stewing in this environment while complaining isn't going to help the situation so the only choices are to never bring them up again and be internally miserable or leave. If you leave, the outcome of that might mean you can't pay your bills.

Re: Charlie Munger – Feeling Like a Victim Is Perfectly Disastrous

#174
post #65

Charlie Munger had great advice in general. And I've learned a lot of good from him. But I will never get over the hypocrisy of owning a quarter of Coca Cola and constantly criticizing Americans for being overweight (he used words like "sloth").

He sponsored what essentially was a prison style dorm. He might have great advice, but it will probably make you a worse human. https://www.fastcompany.com/90740511/heres-what-its-like-liv...

>Munger’s $200 million donation to the university is contingent on the structure being built to his windowless specifications.

Reason being:

>“Our design is clever,” Munger assured skeptics. “Our buildings are going to be efficient.” In addition to cutting costs and foiling potential defenestrations, his design would force students out of their sleeping cubbies and into communal spaces—with real sunlight—where, he said, they would engage with one another.

It seems to me encouraging university students to spend more time alone would be more conducive to getting work done. Overall Munger seemed to have had this notion a lot of old people have that the youth need to suffer because of-course they suffered more.

Re: Charlie Munger – Feeling Like a Victim Is Perfectly Disastrous

#175

Somewhat the height of survivorship bias. There are a many number of people that don't adopt a victim mentality, work hard, and try to get ahead and just don't. For every Charlie Munger there are tons of working poor that get up everyday, work hard for minimum wage, then go off to their second job. My entire childhood I watched both my parents, who both had 2 jobs, work themselves non-stop to try to provide for us. T…

Sorry, I have to counter you. Because someone close to me has always been about countering survivorship bias. And they have absolutely ruined their life. It's an easy out that people who are sharing their successes with you and the world have a survivorship bias. This is a fairly recent idea and quite a poison in itself. What it actually preaches is don't look and emulate the successful people in your environment and…

There are ways that your comment and the parent are both right.

I’m very much on board with the idea of eschewing victimhood thinking, and I generally see the invocation of survivorship bias as a pretty sad indicator of someone’s attachment to victimhood.

However I also recognize that the world isn’t great at empowering people to get out of difficult situations in life. Once you’re down, the world has all kinds of ways of keeping you down. “Just work hard and save money” seems like simple stuff that anyone can do but it doesn’t get you very far if you’re at the bottom of the heap, especially if you’re dealing with illness, family problems, or other burdens.

I do believe there are things that almost anyone (without irrevocable health problems) can do to go from a bad situation to a very good one over the long term (I’ve done them), but these things are not widely known or accepted by mainstream society.

So I sympathize with the sense of futility that many people hold.

Re: Charlie Munger – Feeling Like a Victim Is Perfectly Disastrous

#176
Most philosophies come to this realization. Buddhism and Stoicism kind of center this whole ethos: If you can't do anything about it, you don't have to worry about it.

Same thing is going on here. Munger is saying essentially that the past doesn't matter. The situation is what it is and the only thing that matters is what you can do to change it.

Re: Charlie Munger – Feeling Like a Victim Is Perfectly Disastrous

#177
post #14
post #2

[flagged]

I lived in the Munger building at Stanford for a year and it was amazing. Maybe the other buildings aren't like that? But it was the best dorm I ever lived in, by far.

The proposed Munger Hall at UC Sana Barbra is what is being referenced. The building does not currently exist. The University Architect resigned in protest over it's design. I don't think the Munger designed the other buildings that bare his name.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munger_Hall

Re: Charlie Munger – Feeling Like a Victim Is Perfectly Disastrous

#178

I love it. Without even knowing about this particular quote, this has been my standard for myself for some years now. The “it’s always your fault” concept is scary to some folks—and I understand why—but it’s changed my life since I adopted it years ago. Generally speaking, my framework is: 1. I’m NOT a victim. 2. I accept that everything that happens in my life is my fault. 3. I control the controllables; I can’t fix…

>1. I’m NOT a victim.

>Now, I want to be clear that you can, in fact, be a victim and things can happen in your life that isn’t your fault

Going to be honest here, I have no idea what you're talking about. Are you saying that people should go through life never feeling like a victim, even if they are one? I don't see how that would be helpful.

>5. Whatever happens in life, I give myself a cap of 48 hours to get over it—this includes being sad, grieving, being unproductive, etc.

You must seriously loathe yourself or live an incredibly sheltered life if you actually follow this (e.g. not just bottling up your emotions and pretending that you're okay). If your dad died, are you seriously just going to take a weekend to try and power through the grieving process? Actually, if you think spending more than 48 hours being unproductive is something that you have to "get over", do you even let yourself have weekends off from work? This is the kind of mindset that leads to people committing suicide.

Re: Charlie Munger – Feeling Like a Victim Is Perfectly Disastrous

#179
“Self-pity doesn’t work, but if you hallucinate the pitiful state of things is your fault, it works.”

Self pity and self blame are just euphemisms for the same emotional context of being down on yourself.

Not really sure he says anything here, leverages swapping one term for another.

It may be consistent within the context of human language but human feelings? How does “self pity” feel different from blaming myself for pitiful state of things as motivation to fix them.

I’m not so sure last century’s rent seeker investors who worm tongued politicians into propping them up are dropping novel nuggets of philosophy.

Re: Charlie Munger – Feeling Like a Victim Is Perfectly Disastrous

#180

Personally, thinking "it's always your fault" is as not nearly as important as thinking "I am the only one who can do anything (or cares) to make this better." Misfortune isn't always our fault. How we respond to it is.

The "your fault" part of the quote isn't something I take literally, just a pithy way of saying what you said in your post - that I'm the only one who's going to take responsibility for making it better. I also often remember a quote from Unsong - "somebody has to, and no one else will".

I will say, though, that often things I don't like in my life _are_ my fault, and being willing to honestly assess those things is an important razor to cut through the bullshit of self pity.

It's a quote best taken with a slight grain of salt, a lens for looking at a problem which you might not always want to wear. But I like it.

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