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Almost half of Californians speak a non-English language at home

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Re: Almost half of Californians speak a non-English language at home

#171

Post by unethical_ban »

morbicer wrote: post #141
bugglebeetle wrote: post #32

Whenever I see Europeans railing about the destruction of their cultures by small number of immigrants, I want to point to California and be like “you’re doing it wrong.” Pretty much within one generation, everyone here is bilingual, fully integrated, we all enjoy each others company, culture and food etc.

I am risking getting flagged to oblivion but I perceive that there are immigrants that integrate better than others. Asians and south Americans integrate well. Not just in USA, in Europe as well. My country accepted over 500k of Ukrainian refugees into population of just 10m. They integrate outstandingly. I am not one of the haters that would claim that immigrants are "ruining our culture" but I see issues. Example:…

Parts of the United States has that problem, notably areas of Michigan. North African Muslim communities that are socially conservative and causing issues.

Re: Almost half of Californians speak a non-English language at home

#172

Post by bugglebeetle »

hot_gril wrote: post #165
bugglebeetle wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m originally from the Midwest and we have large populations of people from Iraq, Syria, and the Horn of Africa, as well as Palestine, which is a more recent target of bigotry. Look up Minneapolis, Minnesota or Dearborn, Michigan. Overall, those people are more discriminated against there than they would be in California (because the overall culture is more racist against anyone who isn’t white), but still there are…

Dearborn is the most Arab-influenced place I've ever been by far. Nowhere in California is like that. Kinda funny considering the surroundings.

It definitely has a unique history, but Michiganders are proud to have it as a part of their state and love to visit for the food and culture! It’s mostly the west side of the state that has issues with bigotry (which unsurprisingly was settled by Dutch religious fanatics).

Re: Almost half of Californians speak a non-English language at home

#173

Post by stmichel »

justrealist wrote: post #136
29athrowaway wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mestizos have a stronger connection to the land than European settlers.

Nobody has any connection to the land, people are not plants.

So if you get shipped to Turkmenistan tomorrow that wouldn't be a problem right?

Re: Almost half of Californians speak a non-English language at home

#174

Post by musicale »

bhpm wrote: post #87
mrweasel wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The next town over from me have a large Vietnamese community, the older generation frequently only speak Vietnamese, relying on their children and grandchildren to help them navigate in society, doctors appointments, interacting with the government and all those things. I'm continuously surprised that someone would refuse to learn the language of a country they lived in for almost 50 years... Like WHY? Seems rather r…

> Like WHY? Did you grow up with formal education? Did you grow up in a place where girls were encouraged to learn? If either of these is true, your starting condition is miles ahead of the starting conditions for many, many immigrants who came to the US. It sounds simple, but in order to learn something, you have to first believe you “can.” Can in the sense that you have the ability and that you’re permitted to. My…

> If I speak another language, I will lose who I am to the dominant culture

I find this reason very compelling.

Personally I see it as a huge positive to be able to communicate with people and to enjoy cultural benefits - but what about the harms? What about the negative or undesired cultural values that you might absorb and adopt? And what about losing or forgetting your original culture, values and sense of self, and becoming someone you no longer recognize?

Re: Almost half of Californians speak a non-English language at home

#175

Post by bugglebeetle »

unethical_ban wrote: post #171
morbicer wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am risking getting flagged to oblivion but I perceive that there are immigrants that integrate better than others. Asians and south Americans integrate well. Not just in USA, in Europe as well. My country accepted over 500k of Ukrainian refugees into population of just 10m. They integrate outstandingly. I am not one of the haters that would claim that immigrants are "ruining our culture" but I see issues. Example:…

Parts of the United States has that problem, notably areas of Michigan. North African Muslim communities that are socially conservative and causing issues.

No, I’m from Michigan and it’s not an issue at all. We have a ~100 year history of immigrants from Muslim-majority countries and there aren’t any problems aside bigots acting hateful toward them.

Re: Almost half of Californians speak a non-English language at home

#176

Post by musicale »

tayo42 wrote: post #108
bhpm wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Like WHY? Did you grow up with formal education? Did you grow up in a place where girls were encouraged to learn? If either of these is true, your starting condition is miles ahead of the starting conditions for many, many immigrants who came to the US. It sounds simple, but in order to learn something, you have to first believe you “can.” Can in the sense that you have the ability and that you’re permitted to. My…

Those are some seemingly crazy reasons. I live around a lot of Guatemalans, none of them speak English. (I'm in the US.)I've been wondering why not just learn even a little? But also why go to another country and make no attempt to be part of it.

It is the opposite of "When in Rome, do as the Romans do."

Which is to say, don't hesitate to attend the next scheduled public execution or gladiatorial combat exhibition.

Re: Almost half of Californians speak a non-English language at home

#177

Post by thanhhaimai »

OfSanguineFire wrote: post #151
thanhhaimai wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm Vietnamese. The Vietnamese people you mentioned who escaped to the US decades ago were refugees. They were escaping a country where bombs were being dropped daily, famines were normal, and literally millions had died due to lack of food. The literacy rate was 3%. In other words, the majority of those poor folks are not even fluent in writing their main language. Many of them, including my relatives, expressed the…

This comment is interesting. What little I read about the "boat people" escaping Vietnam in the late 1970s was about comparatively privileged South Vietnamese fleeing the new regime that was out for revenge. So, I would have assumed high literacy from those demographics.

The privileged people in Saigon fleeing the new regime escaped mostly via connection. For example, I know people here who fled on US airplanes/ships. They were educated, and most likely knew some French/English before coming here.

The "boat people" were more likely from the coastal town (like Vung Tau), who dropped everything and got on tiny boats, packed like sardines, hoped to get rescued from other fishing boats when getting out far enough to the ocean. They are often poor folks with nothing to lose, and willing to accept a coin flip chance between death and escaping to the US. For this part, I don't have the concrete statistics. But from the stories I have heard, the survival rate of those boat escapes is worse than 50%.

Re: Almost half of Californians speak a non-English language at home

#178

Post by hot_gril »

iaseiadit wrote: post #67
bugglebeetle wrote: post #32

Whenever I see Europeans railing about the destruction of their cultures by small number of immigrants, I want to point to California and be like “you’re doing it wrong.” Pretty much within one generation, everyone here is bilingual, fully integrated, we all enjoy each others company, culture and food etc.

California went from around 85% white European to 35% in roughly a generation (from 1960s to today). Statewide, only 20% of California students are white so their numbers will continue to decline for the foreseeable future. The US is a melting pot culture and people accept these changes, but there’s no reason that European cultures need to replicate this in their own countries.

I can understand if Europe doesn't want to replicate this, but then they might have to fix their issue with birth rates.

Re: Almost half of Californians speak a non-English language at home

#179

Post by iaseiadit »

sin7 wrote: post #169
iaseiadit wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, both numbers refer to non-Hispanic whites. The Hispanic population of California was 13.7% in 1970. 19% in 1980, 39% in 2020: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanics_and_Latinos_in_Cal... And over 55% of students in CA public schools today: https://dq.cde.ca.gov/dataquest/dqcensus/enrethlevels.aspx?a... The shift in demographics wasn't driven entirely by the increase in the Hispanic population, and in fact I di…

I misread your comment. Sorry about that. I misread it because I think of a generation as twenty years and a lifetime as what you described. Sorry again.

Ah, you’re right. It says online that a generation is 20-30 years so I was actually looking over 2-3 generations. Thanks for the correction.

Re: Almost half of Californians speak a non-English language at home

#180

Post by netbioserror »

plaguna wrote: post #31
netbioserror wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain exactly what you’re “all for”? Because of the handful of interpretations of your post, several are downright psychotic.

I am all for it in terms of diversity and inclusion.

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