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Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

philip.greenspun.com

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Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#171

Post by abdullahkhalids »

davegirdy2 wrote: post #155
pynappo wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i think the GP was talking about wired peripherals that plug into usb-a ports on the computer side, not wireless mice/keyboards which use usb-c to charge my current wireless mouse/wired keyboard have usb-c on the peripheral end but I still use usb-a to connect them to the computer

I'm still confused with the term GP. Shouldn't it be OP?

GP means grandparent. It refers to the comment exactly two up.

Ex. From my comment, GP is the comment by pynappo, starting with "i think the GP was talking... "

Similarly, you can have GGP for great-grand parent, etc.

OP refers either to the starter of the post or the top level comment.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#173

Post by stephenr »

crote wrote: post #67
korginator wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USB-C is simply more convenient to use, and you get it right 100% of the time, instead of your orientation being wrong 50% of the time with USB-A.

Just don't accidentally stick USB-C into a USB-A port. It will fit and it will short the port, causing the machine to crash. Speaking from experience...

While you're at it, also don't accidentally plug a computer's Ethernet port into an rj45 wall plate that connects to an analogue pabx, it will fit and it will fry the NIC.

Don't put shit in the wrong hole is really one of the most basic lessons we should teach people in life.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#174

Post by arcticbull »

treyd wrote: post #120

It's very easy to bodge together a USB-A connector in a pinch in a way that USB-C just isn't. USB-A is simple and there's literally tens of billions of devices that would be made just a little bit closer to being e-waste if USB-A ports became substantially less common than they already are on mainstream devices. Adapters exist and should exist, but we shouldn't have to rely on them.

It's also very easy to bodge together a USB-C connector in a pinch that only supports USB 2.0

USB-C is an extraordinarily flexible connector and is super backwards-compatible. If you wanted to provide the exact same support as a USB A port, it's not any more complex. Just finer pitch to solder, but not any finer than anything else on the motherboard.

An A to C cable is also entirely passive. I think it's ok to rely on them. The future is now, time to move on. It's been 27 years.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#175

Post by glennpratt »

aslilac wrote: post #3

calling USB A “legacy” and a “relic” is so misplaced. we all still own USB A devices. I challenge the author to go find a wired keyboard or mouse that comes with a USB C plug. it’s possible, but not easy. the thing is, we could just have both! this isn’t some winner/loser scenario. the real question should be why these computers with enough bandwidth for 11+ connectors don’t at least split the difference with 6/5 of…

The dirt cheap mechanical keyboard I just bought is USB-C. Which was great, because I didn't need an adapter.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#176

Post by arcticbull »

userbinator wrote: post #154

My experience has shown that USB C connectors are far more fragile than A, and every time I plug one in, for some reason the fit just feels vague and unsatisfying. An A plug, when you get it the right way, slides in solidly. As others have mentioned, C seems to have been designed to be the smallest possible, which makes sense for mobile devices, but not for a desktop and its peripherals.

Interestingly enough, they're specced the opposite way.

> Standard USB has a minimum rated lifetime of 1,500 cycles of insertion and removal, the Mini-USB receptacle increased this to 5,000 cycles, and the newer Micro-USB and USB-C receptacles are both designed for a minimum rated lifetime of 10,000 cycles of insertion and removal. [1]

> To accomplish this, a locking device was added and the leaf-spring was moved from the jack to the plug, so that the most-stressed part is on the cable side of the connection. This change was made so that the connector on the less expensive cable would bear the most wear. [1]

I suspect that would make it the responsibility of the cable, not the receptacle, to give you that satisfying feedback. Which is good, because the cable is much cheaper and easier to replace than the receptacle.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_hardware

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#177

Post by dcow »

treyd wrote: post #120

It's very easy to bodge together a USB-A connector in a pinch in a way that USB-C just isn't. USB-A is simple and there's literally tens of billions of devices that would be made just a little bit closer to being e-waste if USB-A ports became substantially less common than they already are on mainstream devices. Adapters exist and should exist, but we shouldn't have to rely on them.

No. If we designed everything around its “bodge together in a pinch factor” we wouldn’t have technology let alone industry. It’s just not realistic or practical to live in the past and I do not believe it would be oppressive to ask people who still have a use for type A to buy a $5 adapter. Also the type C connector retains the exact pins you need to use it in 2.0 mode, they’re just smaller. Literally all these adapters do is connect type A pins to type C pins and add a 56kOhm resistor.

The real reason is bandwidth.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#178

Post by arcticbull »

aslilac wrote: post #3

calling USB A “legacy” and a “relic” is so misplaced. we all still own USB A devices. I challenge the author to go find a wired keyboard or mouse that comes with a USB C plug. it’s possible, but not easy. the thing is, we could just have both! this isn’t some winner/loser scenario. the real question should be why these computers with enough bandwidth for 11+ connectors don’t at least split the difference with 6/5 of…

USB A was released in 1996, it's older than I suspect the majority of HN readers at this point. An A to C cable is entirely passive, so not exactly a big deal to get a cheap adapter.

Not sure I'd rely on keyboards as the standard bearer for 'not a relic' many of them still support PS/2 via passive adapter. That was announced in 1987 and is older than me.

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#179

Post by matheusmoreira »

upon_drumhead wrote: post #18
aslilac wrote: post #3

calling USB A “legacy” and a “relic” is so misplaced. we all still own USB A devices. I challenge the author to go find a wired keyboard or mouse that comes with a USB C plug. it’s possible, but not easy. the thing is, we could just have both! this isn’t some winner/loser scenario. the real question should be why these computers with enough bandwidth for 11+ connectors don’t at least split the difference with 6/5 of…

http://codekeyboards.com are currently USB C as are https://www.wasdkeyboards.com

Those keyboards are really beautiful...

Re: Why aren't motherboards mostly USB-C by now? (2021)

#180

Post by stephenr »

gattis wrote: post #79

any device that doesnt need a 20gbps or higher link is better off connected to your motherboard via a usb-a to usb-c cable. the "a" connector has not been deprecated. in some ways it is the superior connector, higher mating cycles, less fragile, less likely to get ripped loose, much more torque required to bend, and so on. the "c" connector is more useful on the opposite end where you will be plugging in and out more…

> the "a" connector has not been deprecated

I mean... usb 4 literally doesn't define a type-a connector (or type-b). Usb3.2 is the "best" a usb-a port is ever going to deliver.

So while it may still be popular and in-use, from the view of usb as a standard, it is deprecated: it's not present in the latest version.

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