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The Lack of Compensation in Open Source Software Is Unsustainable

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Re: The Lack of Compensation in Open Source Software Is Unsustainable

#171

Post by krapp »

0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #158

It's really interesting to me how the vibes have shifted against open source in recent years. I remember when open source came out, it seemed like an implicit critique of proprietary software as stuffy and corporate. But proprietary software has an advantage: The devs get paid. If you want to get paid for your work, why are you choosing to give it away for free? I'm not judging, I'm genuinely curious. Are there any o…

>Maybe what's needed is a "for-profit open source" license, where the code is free for anyone to read, but it's illegal to use for commercial purposes without paying. I'm guessing this approach is already being explored?

Nonfree and proprietary licenses have always been an option. The problem is developers want the convenience that FOSS culture provides without actually making the sacrifice of putting end-user rights before their own profit. Coding (specifically web dev) has turned into a money train and FOSS devs want on board.

FOSS licensing is an ethical stance. That ownership of software, (nonfree) copyright and intellectual property is fundamentally immoral, and authorship doesn't grant you privilege over the code you write. And that stance has a cost. If developers want to get paid, get a job writing code and a paycheck, or use a nonfree license. Otherwise, stop being hypocritical. You chose this path.

Re: The Lack of Compensation in Open Source Software Is Unsustainable

#172

Post by pacifika »

newsclues wrote: post #62
api wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those two things are connected. People will spend $10 on a coffee drink at Starbucks without blinking. Suggest that they spend $10 on a piece of software and they’ll throw a fit and claim you are taking away their rights.

People will spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on proprietary software. Most of those people won’t spend $100 on open source software.

if they had to pay for open source then they couldn’t afford to pay for commercial software?

Re: The Lack of Compensation in Open Source Software Is Unsustainable

#174

Post by andsoitis »

ahepp wrote: post #70
skrebbel wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re in the majority. But look through any issue list of popular(ish) oss projects and there’s a small but very vocal minority just sucking up the maintainers’ energies like vampires.

I hear this and it makes sense that a minority of users sucks up a lot of time, but what isn't clear to me is why maintainers don't ignore these people. I've never maintained a popular open source project so maybe there's something about the situation I just don't understand. But it seems like: > Thank you for your feature request, we will add it to the backlog. The core team doesn't work on unfunded feature requests…

> but what isn't clear to me is why maintainers don't ignore these people.

There very likely isn't just one reason that applies to all maintainers.

But there are some reasons one can hypothesize that probably apply to some or many maintainers.

Re: The Lack of Compensation in Open Source Software Is Unsustainable

#175

Post by andsoitis »

ranting-moth wrote: post #13

The feeling of entitlement people have around open source is unsustainable. If someone releases code then that's it. You have it. Do what you want with it (within it's licence). Be thankful. Unless that guy specifically says he's going to maintain it for free you are entitled to exactly absolutely nothing more you ungrateful little git. If you add this code to your project, you should fix and share any problems you e…

I agree with your sentiment of "Unless that guy specifically says he's going to maintain it for free you are entitled to exactly absolutely nothing"

That works both ways though, a maintainer cannot expect users to not complain (so they have to develop management strategies where they ignore the noise, rather than try to engage/capitulate). A maintainer can also not lament when users do not feel the desire to contribute monetarily.

Re: The Lack of Compensation in Open Source Software Is Unsustainable

#176

Post by epx »

I have published a project to interact with house alarm systems manufactured by a local company [1]. It is a hobby project, I have it for my own use, don't expect it becomes a money printing machine.

Yet, since many users request features well outside my use cases, and I have only one sample of the many alarm models that use the same protocol, I thought I'd be successful in getting some help from the manufacturer, from lent hardware (at pessimist side) to some small monetary contribution (optimist side). I got no response at all...

People are also fast to point things that are "wrong" but don't want to submit a PR at all.

[1] https://github.com/elvis-epx/alarme-intelbras

Re: The Lack of Compensation in Open Source Software Is Unsustainable

#177

Post by Beijinger »

ahepp wrote: post #144
kawhah wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Another is that these people are pretty good at starting shit storms trying to ruin your reputation if you don't comply with their unreasonable demands. If you go on social media and offer your well-thought-out opinions about some controversial subject, you are very likely to get large number of people sending you offensive messages, arguing with you objectionably, trying to start pile-ons, attempting to dox you, e…

This is a bit tangential, but I actually think charging money to participate in certain online discussions is a really good idea. For instance, I think it would be awesome if everyone sending an email to my main account had to send me $1. If what they are sending me isn't worth $1 to them, why should I get a buzz on my phone? Spam would be solved instantly. I certainly don't think that every corner of the internet sh…

Excellent Idea. But why email? Just use a webform that charges 1 USD via paypal to contact you. Trust me, I wont!

Re: The Lack of Compensation in Open Source Software Is Unsustainable

#178

Post by geerlingguy »

ahepp wrote: post #70
skrebbel wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re in the majority. But look through any issue list of popular(ish) oss projects and there’s a small but very vocal minority just sucking up the maintainers’ energies like vampires.

I hear this and it makes sense that a minority of users sucks up a lot of time, but what isn't clear to me is why maintainers don't ignore these people. I've never maintained a popular open source project so maybe there's something about the situation I just don't understand. But it seems like: > Thank you for your feature request, we will add it to the backlog. The core team doesn't work on unfunded feature requests…

It's like if you live in a quiet suburb, and someone walks up to your window every night and starts yelling obscenities for an hour or two.

It can be ignored, yes, but the worst offenders go beyond a polite discourse and will send emails to whatever email they can find, DM you on Twitter, Mastodon, etc., and drop weird and annoying comments anywhere they think you have a chance of seeing them.

Some people have thicker skins than others, but it's just a bit tiresome no matter how much you can deflect.

Re: The Lack of Compensation in Open Source Software Is Unsustainable

#179

Post by nablaone »

rpastuszak wrote: post #150
newsclues wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People will spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on proprietary software. Most of those people won’t spend $100 on open source software.

I had this moment of cognitive dissonance when I noticed that one colleagues would use "open source" as a synonym for "poor quality". Context: I was working as a contractor, for a bank. That colleague was managing a bunch of *nix instances used to deploy our web services.

Because open source projects are not products per se. If you use mostly a proprietary software, open source project can be perceived as "poor quality product".

Re: The Lack of Compensation in Open Source Software Is Unsustainable

#180

Post by tzs »

okraigher wrote: post #46

I think an open source compensation system could work similar to how artists are payed when their song is played on the radio. Radio stations in Sweden pay a fee to an organisation which distributes the money to artists in proportion to the amount of playtime. Imagine a new type of open source license that mandated paying a membership fee to a global foundation to use the code commercially. Non-commersial use would s…

Such a system has been proposed for copyrighted works in general. The general idea is that you change copyright law so that making copies does not require permission of the copyright holder, but you also put a tax on something that correlates somewhat with copying. The government would then distribute that tax money to copyright owners in some manner dependent on how much their work was copied.

Even Stallman has suggested such a system [1], with the amount a given copyright owner gets for a work being proportional to the cube root of how much it is copied.

A common suggestion for the tax is a tax on internet access.

For entertainment such as movies and music and games that could probably work well. Probably also for closed source software. For open source software it might be too difficult to figure out how to allocate the money.

[1] https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/copyright-versus-community.en...

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