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Why do people still use VBA?

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Re: Why do people still use VBA?

#171

Post by layer8 »

dmurray wrote: post #125
menotyou wrote: post #109

Let's face it: IT is the bureaucracy department of modern times which can keep itself 95% busy with self inflicted problems and has 5% service orientation. Processes are opaque for outsiders and typically not helpful. I really had to lough when I read the following description of the IBM BPM but this sums up a good part of the issue: "...while IBM BPM does come with a REST API, this REST API is borderline useless to…

There's a sentence in the article which says that this is an explicit policy decision of the company. > It is supposedly “Against the technology strategic vision of the company” to allow “end-users” access to high level programming languages.

It’s weird to me though that VBA apparently doesn’t count as “high level”.

Re: Why do people still use VBA?

#172

Post by ethbr1 »

usrbinbash wrote: post #170
menotyou wrote: post #109

Let's face it: IT is the bureaucracy department of modern times which can keep itself 95% busy with self inflicted problems and has 5% service orientation. Processes are opaque for outsiders and typically not helpful. I really had to lough when I read the following description of the IBM BPM but this sums up a good part of the issue: "...while IBM BPM does come with a REST API, this REST API is borderline useless to…

I can find bad examples of how things work in basically every department I chose if I look long enough. Are there IT-Managed things that border on insanity? Oh yes. Are these a good excuse to build a shadow IT? No, they are not. Don't get me wrong: I'm not bothered at all when a couple analysts get together and hack away at their own little tools in VBA. Kudos to them for getting into the spirit of things, and maybe…

> or even access to the repo for that abomination (access to a what now?).

Did someone give the analysts access to a repo?

Because I'd hazard ~80% of the companies I've seen don't allow "non-development" users access to the corporate version control system.

Re: Why do people still use VBA?

#173

Post by layer8 »

emodendroket wrote: post #74
mcbishop wrote: post #38

VBA is a lovely language, that supports object-oriented programming (with composition... no inheritance). It has deep access to and control of Excel. It's mature and stable (Microsoft is no longer significantly changing it). "Real programmers" hate on it largely because of all the amateur spaghetti VBA code written by the business people (that the programmers are occasionally asked to debug).

I mean I think it's fair to look askance at any environment that includes misfeatures like `On Error Resume Next`.

You mean like most shell scripts? VBA is no different from Bash here.

Re: Why do people still use VBA?

#174

Post by gwervc »

usrbinbash wrote: post #170
menotyou wrote: post #109

Let's face it: IT is the bureaucracy department of modern times which can keep itself 95% busy with self inflicted problems and has 5% service orientation. Processes are opaque for outsiders and typically not helpful. I really had to lough when I read the following description of the IBM BPM but this sums up a good part of the issue: "...while IBM BPM does come with a REST API, this REST API is borderline useless to…

I can find bad examples of how things work in basically every department I chose if I look long enough. Are there IT-Managed things that border on insanity? Oh yes. Are these a good excuse to build a shadow IT? No, they are not. Don't get me wrong: I'm not bothered at all when a couple analysts get together and hack away at their own little tools in VBA. Kudos to them for getting into the spirit of things, and maybe…

> When I ask for documentation (there isn't any), an architectural overview (nope)

As if any of those were present in the average web project lol. I complained about those points in sprint review this morning, and this is a big project made by IT companies.

Re: Why do people still use VBA?

#175

Post by usrbinbash »

ethbr1 wrote: post #172
usrbinbash wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can find bad examples of how things work in basically every department I chose if I look long enough. Are there IT-Managed things that border on insanity? Oh yes. Are these a good excuse to build a shadow IT? No, they are not. Don't get me wrong: I'm not bothered at all when a couple analysts get together and hack away at their own little tools in VBA. Kudos to them for getting into the spirit of things, and maybe…

> or even access to the repo for that abomination (access to a what now?). Did someone give the analysts access to a repo? Because I'd hazard ~80% of the companies I've seen don't allow "non-development" users access to the corporate version control system.

I'd be happy to put up a repo for them, if they ask. Problem is, they often don't.

And not to make too big a deal out of it, but using github, gitlab or anything along these lines, is mostly free, not exactly rocket science, and private repos exist.

Re: Why do people still use VBA?

#176

Post by ethbr1 »

jojobas wrote: post #153
TeMPOraL wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In my bubble back then it was considered a good strategy, let departments first play around, and if they are on to something integrate it. Funny how with computerized process, IT departments are effectively central planners . The lowly workers get to only do what the IT secretariat allows. It is this way because national^Wcorporate security!

It's not so much central planners deciding who can have what, but rather a natural monopoly. You don't want your water/electricity depend on a family-run shop that can just shut down, and neither you want your purchasing department to hinge on that guy from logistics who can just quit, leaving behind his magic incomprehensible spreadsheets.

We decided that the water/electricity utility doesn't get to control how you use the amount you consume.

Modern IT is more like if your water utility had final say over which faucet you installed and how you used it.

Re: Why do people still use VBA?

#177

Post by gremlinunderway »

sanitycheck wrote: post #145
j-a-a-p wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VBA is the ultimate agile programming language. The company's IT aka Bureaucracy Department is stuck with Scrum, Squads and what not. And meanwhile in the other departments people are just getting things done with Excel/VBA. Nothing has changed. In the last century this also happened and it was called islands of automation. In my bubble back then it was considered a good strategy, let departments first play around, a…

I was talking about this with a friend the other week... I think what IT depts really need to do is let people go crazy with Excel/VBA, but write a script to monitor activity on xls files on the network over the long term. If there's an xls which has been in regular use for more than 18 months, and it contains macros, then it can be assumed it performs some important role and should be properly documented and checked…

You're actually on to a really important thing that IT depts misunderstand about Excel/VBA monstrosities.

They exist because they work. You want UX or business analysis? You literally just got that done for you for free if you run into a Excel/VBA application. The hardest part of dev is figuring out requirements, so stop looking at these as toys and start realizing that shadow IT exists because of a gap in development. Full stop. You can argue all day long that you're working your assess off, and you do great products, but the existence of these apps is empirical proof that IT has missed the boat on developing something of importance.

Use that.

Re: Why do people still use VBA?

#179

Post by 7952 »

jojobas wrote: post #153
TeMPOraL wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In my bubble back then it was considered a good strategy, let departments first play around, and if they are on to something integrate it. Funny how with computerized process, IT departments are effectively central planners . The lowly workers get to only do what the IT secretariat allows. It is this way because national^Wcorporate security!

It's not so much central planners deciding who can have what, but rather a natural monopoly. You don't want your water/electricity depend on a family-run shop that can just shut down, and neither you want your purchasing department to hinge on that guy from logistics who can just quit, leaving behind his magic incomprehensible spreadsheets.

Although those kind of questions around continuity happen across business. Sometimes the service you are offering depends on individual contact and flexibility rather than offering a commodity utility. And dependance on a small number of individuals is an acceptable and understood risk. The trouble with software is when managers don't understand that risk and offload it on another department when things go wrong.
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