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Rivian software update bricks infotainment system, fix not obvious

electrek.co

171–180 of 386 posts

Re: Rivian software update bricks infotainment system, fix not obvious

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it not have an aux port? USB C to Aux cables are pretty cheap and simple.

I know I know but then there's a cable from where the phone is to the middle console where the aux port is. But true, it'd for sure be better sound quality.

> I know I know but then there's a cable from where the phone is to the middle console where the aux port is.

This doesn't seem unmanageable, no?

Re: Rivian software update bricks infotainment system, fix not obvious

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is nearly zero regular maintenance to be done on EVs though. No oil, no belts, no fuel filter, spark plugs etc. Even the brakes will likely last entire lifetime of the car

EVs should be subject to mandatory German-style inspection by law to counteract this delusion.

Just EVs?

Re: Rivian software update bricks infotainment system, fix not obvious

#173
post #98
post #5

It's crazy to me that this is possible in the first place. Standard practice is to have a fleet of test vehicles that are effectively production except in an early release group. Or, you know, having an A/B boot partition scheme with a watchdog. Things that have been around for decades at this point. Disclaimer: Former Googler, Worked closely with Automotive.

What amazes me is that any grown up person thinks it is a good idea to update vehicles as if they were telephones Owners should have to bring the vehicle into a shop to have changes made, and they should be very rare. This lazy, control freakery of the worst kind Something very bad is going on happen and people will die before we realize that it is a stupid dangerous practice

As the update only affects infotainment and not critical systems, it seems like a reasonable tradeoff to me. Just because a car can fail in ways that kill people doesn't mean all parts of a car are equally critical.

Re: Rivian software update bricks infotainment system, fix not obvious

#174
I built a whole remote software update mechanism for a control binary that ran on 25k+ servers across multiple data centers.

Rest assured that after the first time I messed it up (which required ssh into each box individually), I wrote a lot of unit and integration tests to make sure that it never failed to deploy again. One of the integration tests ensured that the app started up and could always go through the internal auto update process. This ran in CI and would fail the build if it didn't pass.

While I fully understand that this is hard to get right 100% of the time, a mess up of this level by a car manufacturer is pretty amazing to me.

Re: Rivian software update bricks infotainment system, fix not obvious

#175
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, using Polestar as a reference as it's both a vehicle that I've worked on, and one that I personally drive. > Maybe they've got a test fleet, but it accepts code signed with the test build key. Polestar solves this by only delivering signed updates to their vehicles. The vehicle headunit will refuse to flash a partition that isn't signed by the private key held by Polestar. Pulls double duty to prevent someone fro…

To be honest, I don't think Polestar set a very high bar for software quality. I am currently renting a Polestar 2 from Hertz, and sometimes the HUD doesn't work(it's 50/50 if it will turn on). That means, I don't see speed, battery charge, etc, while driving. Infotainment system is working though.

Sounds ridiculous. How is that even road legal ?!?

Re: Rivian software update bricks infotainment system, fix not obvious

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, using Polestar as a reference as it's both a vehicle that I've worked on, and one that I personally drive. > Maybe they've got a test fleet, but it accepts code signed with the test build key. Polestar solves this by only delivering signed updates to their vehicles. The vehicle headunit will refuse to flash a partition that isn't signed by the private key held by Polestar. Pulls double duty to prevent someone fro…

Opinion: I'm a little confused as to how you're confused as to how test might not match prod sometimes. Observation: "[if you write buggy software], there's reason for you to get an off the shelf option" Question: Are you saying if they used Android Automotive this could never have happened? Reference: similar event for Android, last week: https://linustechtips.com/topic/1538248-pixel-phones-using-m... Disclaimer: Fo…

[deleted]

Re: Rivian software update bricks infotainment system, fix not obvious

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cars 20 years ago, even most of them 10 years ago, never got any updates unless they got recalled. Nothing broke, nothing got hacked, and most are probably still working fine. What happened to cars today? I refuse to believe that it's solely because these are electric cars, as if the way the car stores and uses energy dictates that it must be part of the internet of things. Edit: there were electric cars over 100 yea…

Cars 20 years ago didn't have realtime traffic on big touchscreens that you can use to look up your destination and plan out a route that also lets you schedule fueling/charging stops, oh and also stream humanity's entire library of recorded music, books, and podcasts. It's a tradeoff that the vast majority of people want.

All that stuff should be done via smartphones and the screen in the car should be a dumb display for it.

Re: Rivian software update bricks infotainment system, fix not obvious

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rivian consistently ships a lot of new features and improvements, you can see the changelogs here [1]. I think you can pretty fairly critique a lot of them with: They are just solving a problem that they created by making it too techy, or they are shipping stuff they should have completed before releasing the product. I do think its hard to argue that the updates aren't adding anything of value though. There's conven…

Funny, our 2020 MY Jaguar controls car functions from the digital screen in front of the driver, the middle console screens only control AC, entertainment, phone, navigation and other non-car related stuff. No idea how the architecture looks behind all that so. But seriously, even if on the same bus, just don't the media player, radio and connected phone access to the systems actually running the car from engine to b…

And please, please, finish developing the embedded software running on car before shipping said car.

Sorry, but things no longer work that way, and never will again. This is a good thing, as long as processes are improved to avoid situations like this one.

Re: Rivian software update bricks infotainment system, fix not obvious

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like it was tested on their own fleet but they accidentally pushed the wrong bits when deploying the update more widely out to customers.

The usual "best practice" thing for IoT deploys, is to deploy to "your" devices, what for everyone to go green, then allow that build to deploy more widely. In a well-functioning system, it shouldn't be possible to swap bits between those stages. But who knows what these guys were doing. :/

Reading between the lines of their public comments it sounds like they did run a full test through their test fleet, their employees, and then were rolling out to customers when the promotion process was "fat fingered". Maybe someone accidentally promoted the wrong release version.

Re: Rivian software update bricks infotainment system, fix not obvious

#180
post #5

It's crazy to me that this is possible in the first place. Standard practice is to have a fleet of test vehicles that are effectively production except in an early release group. Or, you know, having an A/B boot partition scheme with a watchdog. Things that have been around for decades at this point. Disclaimer: Former Googler, Worked closely with Automotive.

Rivian does have a test fleet, and they test it for weeks before releasing. This particular issue is because they apparently distributed the firmware signed with the wrong cert.

Not a bug in the software itself.

That is independent of testing the software, but still a distribution issue.

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