It's perfectly legal for cars to harvest your texts, call logs • Hacker News Board

Re: It's perfectly legal for cars to harvest your texts, call logs

#171

Post by everdrive » Sun, Nov 12, 2023, 6:16 PM UTC

greentea23 wrote: post #111

JohnFen wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My personal solution: I won't own a car that has this sort of capability in the first place, and when I rent a car, I will never allow it and my phone to talk to each other for any reason.

Is that possible anymore? I think all new cars are always online and always collecting data now, and you void your warranty (very different cost/benefit calculus than voiding a phone warranty) if you tamper with the antennas to keep it offline. Very sad state of affairs.

Some modern cars do not have telematics systems. As far as I know, base model Nissans often don't. In other cases, some telematics systems can be easily disabled. (in the Ford Maverick, it's got a single dedicate fuse, and doesn't complain when you pull the fuse.)

Re: It's perfectly legal for cars to harvest your texts, call logs

#172

Post by everdrive » Sun, Nov 12, 2023, 6:17 PM UTC

patmorgan23 wrote: post #150

JohnFen wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My personal solution: I won't own a car that has this sort of capability in the first place, and when I rent a car, I will never allow it and my phone to talk to each other for any reason.

Uh dude any car made in the last 15 years has this capability.

This is far from true. Many cars made within the last 15 years don't have any sort of telematics system.

Re: It's perfectly legal for cars to harvest your texts, call logs

#173

Post by salawat » Sun, Nov 12, 2023, 6:26 PM UTC

InCityDreams wrote: post #63

graphe wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It probably helps that this isn't exploited often. You're fine. To attack someone requires so much effort the clickbait article didn't deserve the views.

How often isn't it exploited often? Additionally: if you were a person travelling for an abortion, not in your car because your state is all fucked up(!), can the cops request copies of texts you've received/ sent?

Yes, if they have probable cause sufficient to attain a warrant.

Or they ask the rental company nice enough for a few monutes they may not even need that, as a prosecutor would argue that you waived 4th Amendment protections by not taking sufficient measures to "ensure your privacy". Third Party Doctrine.

Re: It's perfectly legal for cars to harvest your texts, call logs

#174

Post by hn_throwaway_99 » Sun, Nov 12, 2023, 7:41 PM UTC

everdrive wrote: post #170

RandallBrown wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spent some time around 2012 working on in car "infotainment" units at a large tech company for a large car company. I was told that the infotainment systems were where a large chunk of their profit came from and differentiating their experience was important to the car company. Of course, they wanted to use decade old CPUs and touchscreens to save money, so the experience was horrible. I left shortly after CarPlay…

>I was told that the infotainment systems were where a large chunk of their profit came from and differentiating their experience was important to the car company. I wonder how that could be true. Most car companies have pretty terrible infotainment systems, and I've never met anyone who genuinely loved the infotainment system in their car. (Most people I know tend feel that it ranges from "somewhat annoying" to "goo…

I think the important point is that the comment you are responding to was talking about 2012. CarPlay didn't come out until 2014, Android Auto in 2015. So before that, the only option for infotainment systems was various levels of suckage, and I think it was a differentiator among people wanting the "least sucky" system.

These days, even when I see the rate infotainment system that is pretty good, people still want CarPlay/Android Auto because that's what they're used to, and it already integrates with settings and data that have already been configured on the user's phone.

Re: It's perfectly legal for cars to harvest your texts, call logs

#175

Post by philsnow » Sun, Nov 12, 2023, 7:49 PM UTC

lrvick wrote: post #127

bri3d wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do I think these features are not nefarious? * There's an obvious, legitimate want for the vehicle's head unit to ingest this data, in order to display a UI (or provide a voice UI) which allows the user to call a contact by name or read a recently received text message. Is this a poor implementation concept which has mostly been supplanted by better implementations (Android Auto / CarPlay), sure, absolutely but i…

I have worked for enough IoT and whitelabeled tech companies to know spying is normally never a plan from the start. It is the lack of planning to prevent it that is years later branded as a feature to sell when company leadership looking to boost numbers or build political capitol start talking to law enforcement. Often after an acquisition or two. I personally know a release engineer that was required to quietly se…

> I personally know a release engineer that was required to quietly send all new code changes to an NSA ftp server, presumably to make sure none of the bugs they rely on were fixed.

... what would they have your acquaintance do if a bug they relied on were fixed? Push back on the change?

Re: It's perfectly legal for cars to harvest your texts, call logs

#176

Post by gangstead » Mon, Nov 13, 2023, 3:20 PM UTC

everdrive wrote: post #170

RandallBrown wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spent some time around 2012 working on in car "infotainment" units at a large tech company for a large car company. I was told that the infotainment systems were where a large chunk of their profit came from and differentiating their experience was important to the car company. Of course, they wanted to use decade old CPUs and touchscreens to save money, so the experience was horrible. I left shortly after CarPlay…

>I was told that the infotainment systems were where a large chunk of their profit came from and differentiating their experience was important to the car company. I wonder how that could be true. Most car companies have pretty terrible infotainment systems, and I've never met anyone who genuinely loved the infotainment system in their car. (Most people I know tend feel that it ranges from "somewhat annoying" to "goo…

It used to be a standard $1k - $2k upgrade to get the navigation system which I imagine was highly profitable. It certainly didn't seem like any car manufacturer put much effort into it. Sometimes they could even get you to buy $300 map updates! With Car Play and Android Auto I don't know who's paying for that any more.

Re: It's perfectly legal for cars to harvest your texts, call logs

#177

Post by lrvick » Tue, Nov 14, 2023, 7:27 AM UTC

philsnow wrote: post #175

lrvick wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have worked for enough IoT and whitelabeled tech companies to know spying is normally never a plan from the start. It is the lack of planning to prevent it that is years later branded as a feature to sell when company leadership looking to boost numbers or build political capitol start talking to law enforcement. Often after an acquisition or two. I personally know a release engineer that was required to quietly se…

> I personally know a release engineer that was required to quietly send all new code changes to an NSA ftp server, presumably to make sure none of the bugs they rely on were fixed. ... what would they have your acquaintance do if a bug they relied on were fixed? Push back on the change?

That was implied, but never happened that they know of.

Could be they just decide to go take maximum risky advantage of the flaw before it is patched.