What I learned getting acquired by Google • Hacker News Board

Re: What I learned getting acquired by Google

#171

Post by ajross » Thu, Nov 09, 2023, 7:37 PM UTC

arrosenberg wrote: post #160

ajross wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those unaware, these rules are pervasive in the US corporate world, and stem directly from Vizcaino v. Microsoft in 1996. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permatemp Effectively the fact that an employer treats a temporary employee "the same" as a regular one (i.e. by granting them the same perks) is construed by courts as evidence that they are not temporary . So, if a company wants to hire temp/contractor empl…

> Blame the courts, basically. It was a terrible decision, for exactly this reason. Its effect is directly contra to its intent. Blame them for enforcing labor law? Why not blame the companies for exploiting labor by misclassifying them to deny benefits?

Again, to repeat: the desire in the suit (to prevent employers from inappropriately using temporary labor) was valid. The EFFECT of the suit is exactly the opposite: it's forced employers to performatively discriminate against temps in every way they can find as a way to prevent the kind of finding that hurt MSFT.

Thus, it's a bad ruling. I'm all for reform of contractor labor laws, but this decision broke things.

Re: What I learned getting acquired by Google

#172

Post by xwdv » Thu, Nov 09, 2023, 7:38 PM UTC

fredsmith219 wrote: post #104

slater- wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

thank you for mentioning this. i was a red badge. it was fucking demeaning. i have a lot of stories, but my favorite was when everyone on my floor got an earthquake safety kit except me. literally google didn't care if i lived or died. the expectation was that if i sucked up enough ("demonstrated my value") they MIGHT make me a real boy, like some bizarre Velveteen Rabbit fetish game. i loved watching how Google woul…

Not at Google but I was a contractor at a hospital. All the employees got active shooter training. I guess the contractors were meant to be fodder.

Why would they train you? It’s the responsibility of your parent company and for all they know you’ve already been thoroughly trained for active shootings in numerous other companies you’ve worked at.

You are not their problem.

Re: What I learned getting acquired by Google

#173

Post by EspressoGPT » Thu, Nov 09, 2023, 7:39 PM UTC

xnacly wrote: post #67

How would one go about working at google as a junior fullstack developer? I wanted to work remote or onsite in germany but there seem to be no open positions

First and foremost, remove that red "Google is actively hurting the open web with its browser chromium" banner from your personal website[1].

[1] https://xnacly.me/

Re: What I learned getting acquired by Google

#174

Post by actionfromafar » Thu, Nov 09, 2023, 7:39 PM UTC

slater- wrote: post #96

CobrastanJorji wrote: post #79

The "red badge" thing was very real. It was really weird having TVCs on your team. You'd all work hard together to launch a thing, and then everybody except the red badge would get a celebratory team tchotchke or a team lunch or something. If you asked about it, the manager would say "we can't give Jim things directly because that might be like compensation and they'd be like an employee." There'd be all-hands meetin…

thank you for mentioning this. i was a red badge. it was fucking demeaning. i have a lot of stories, but my favorite was when everyone on my floor got an earthquake safety kit except me. literally google didn't care if i lived or died. the expectation was that if i sucked up enough ("demonstrated my value") they MIGHT make me a real boy, like some bizarre Velveteen Rabbit fetish game. i loved watching how Google woul…

Can we please just starting using the term House Elf for this sort of thing? It would be awesome shorthand.

Re: What I learned getting acquired by Google

#175

Post by ethbr1 » Thu, Nov 09, 2023, 7:39 PM UTC

peddling-brink wrote: post #113

coldtrait wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea I've experienced this in capital one. Some smaller non tech companies are chill, where there is really no difference in how they treat contractors and employees.

I worked at a big insurance company for a while. Contractors could have their birthday celebrated, but cake was not permitted.

That's brutal.

Re: What I learned getting acquired by Google

#176

Post by nineplay » Thu, Nov 09, 2023, 7:41 PM UTC

CobrastanJorji wrote: post #79

The "red badge" thing was very real. It was really weird having TVCs on your team. You'd all work hard together to launch a thing, and then everybody except the red badge would get a celebratory team tchotchke or a team lunch or something. If you asked about it, the manager would say "we can't give Jim things directly because that might be like compensation and they'd be like an employee." There'd be all-hands meetin…

I went from full time employee to contractor at the same company once and it was honestly a huge relief.

No awkward team lunches

No useless tchotchkes

No boring all hands

No forced participation events like 'hackathons'.

I just worked. It was great

Re: What I learned getting acquired by Google

#177

Post by actionfromafar » Thu, Nov 09, 2023, 7:41 PM UTC

resolutebat wrote: post #131

slater- wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

thank you for mentioning this. i was a red badge. it was fucking demeaning. i have a lot of stories, but my favorite was when everyone on my floor got an earthquake safety kit except me. literally google didn't care if i lived or died. the expectation was that if i sucked up enough ("demonstrated my value") they MIGHT make me a real boy, like some bizarre Velveteen Rabbit fetish game. i loved watching how Google woul…

> the expectation was that if i sucked up enough ("demonstrated my value") they MIGHT make me a real boy, like some bizarre Velveteen Rabbit fetish game. Google goes out of its way to emphasize that TVC "conversion" does not exist. You can interview, but you'll go through the same process as anybody else, they'll make sure you don't interview with anybody you know, and your achievements as TVC are discounted complete…

If what OP said is true, Google goes at least both ways, then.

Re: What I learned getting acquired by Google

#178

Post by eloisant » Thu, Nov 09, 2023, 7:41 PM UTC

jeffbee wrote: post #60

asdfman123 wrote: post #33

The second passport thing is definitely true. When I'm abroad--even, recently, Buenos Aires--I have access to office space, free food, a gym, and even a music room where I can practice guitar and piano.

It's almost literally a sidekick passport. If you fly into a city with a major Google office and you say you are there for work and you work at Google, the customs agent might ask to see your badge.

It has nothing to do with it being a passport, when you tell a custom agent you come for work and you work for company X they can ask for some proof. Nothing more to it.

Re: What I learned getting acquired by Google

#179

Post by ethbr1 » Thu, Nov 09, 2023, 7:42 PM UTC

gumby wrote: post #133

orangecat wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a company that behaves this way should be run out of town It's literally illegal to treat contractors too well.

But remember that is because these companies were exploiting the use of contractors to deny them employee protections. True contractors won’t care: they work for themselves and have multiple clients anyway. But these "red" people are employees in all but name, so that the companies can save money and other protections. A small slip up by Google (Apple/FB/MS/tons of others) and these folks get the protection they dese…

Exactly. The mistake was thinking that the responsibility stemmed from the employeeing entity.

It shouldn't.

It's clearly more linked to the type and structure of work performed.

Re: What I learned getting acquired by Google

#180

Post by svachalek » Thu, Nov 09, 2023, 7:43 PM UTC

ajross wrote: post #141

gumby wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Blame the courts, basically. No, blame these companies for trying hard to avoid workplace protection.

No, it's got nothing to do with workplace protection or wages. The original suit was actually about participation in the stock purchase program (which in the mid-90's was extremely lucrative at MSFT!), something that no contractor would normally expect to get. But because the contractors got free food at the cafe (or whatever), they did. Or rather they got a settlement making up for the stock the courts said they sho…

The game is that the contractors are supposedly not working for the company that they're actually working for. Anything that might break that illusion puts the company at risk of needing to treat them as the actual employees that they are.