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Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

nytimes.com

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Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#171

Post by genewitch »

gorbachev wrote: post #93
blooalien wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "and it probably won't happen to them." Until it does ... at which point they'll scream "Bloody Murder!" and ask "How could this happen to me?"

The most tragic thing about this is that most of the legislators are exactly the same. There's no problem until it happens to them. It's acceptable for "others" to be thought of as drug dealers and other miscreants who don't deserve to have bank accounts.

Leopards ate my face?

Reminds me of that D.A. that walked into a bank during the covid masking era and ruminated that they'd locked up people for less. I'm unsure if they changed their tactics or whatever because of this.

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#172

Post by patmcc »

015a wrote: post #126
patmcc wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>>Banks shouldn’t be allowed to ban anyone. This gets pretty tricky - telling a bank they need to keep dealing with customers that cost them tons of money and are actively trying to defraud them (and other customers) seems awfully harsh. I think the government should provide a basic bank account to anyone who wants one though.

> telling a bank they need to keep dealing with customers that cost them tons of money and are actively trying to defraud them (and other customers) seems awfully harsh. So, the legal system? The only reason regulated banks should be able to deplatform someone is if they also have a legally actionable case, and they do legally action it, and the person is found guilty.

Ok; can we do the same to your industry? Would you enjoy being required to serve incredibly unprofitable customers until you can (very expensively!) take them to court?

If being banked is so critical (and it is, in modern society) then it shouldn't be handled solely by private enterprise. Government needs to step in and offer basic services.

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#173

Post by bmulcahy »

lxm wrote: post #144
XorNot wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a very obvious utility in the US which should be able to prevent this: The US Postal Service. It's federally required to exist, and services all Americans already. Basic banking services should be one of the things it is expanded to provide in a minimal, safe fashion (i.e. no loans or lending, but guaranteed electronic banking and funds transfer services).

> guaranteed electronic banking and funds transfer services That alone exceeds the requirement of “minimal” as there’s now a need to hire staff for fraud monitoring, handle disputed transactions, chase fraudulent transfers, deal with those who forgot their passwords to electronic banking, had their passwords stolen, etc. What are the new revenue channels that will pay for all that extra staff (and considering it’s US…

>What are the new revenue channels that will pay for all that extra staff (and considering it’s USPS, their pensions)?

The federal government, unlike most other entities, does not need to match new revenue to new spending. It can and does create new money for any spending it deems worth it.

Funding basic banking for all through the USPS is worth it.

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#174

Post by advael »

nine_zeros wrote: post #170
advael wrote: post #162

I'm somewhat surprised no one here views this as an automated decisionmaking problem It's increasingly clear that automating important decisions like this is causing a lot of harm while removing most forms of recourse available to those affected. Coupled with the way automated decisions are used to perform and then launder fraud on a massive scale, maybe we should target laws at the automation itself: Require decisio…

But the productivity gainz from AI!!! Jokes aside, we are entering a world of AI-decision hell. If it is any similar to the algo-decision hell from the past decade, humans are fucked.

Not if we successfully neutralize this paradigm's ability to take over crucial institutions, such as by enforcing lines of responsibility as I've suggested

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#175

Post by cft »

kylehotchkiss wrote: post #135
renewiltord wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Patriot Act expired, no? Also, I've stayed abroad for a year or more and I just swapped the address to a friend's home. Kept my Google Fi, etc. and used my credit cards all internationally alone. I think I visited the US like once in a year and it was fine for the rest of the time. I lost my phone and actually activated my Google Fi SIM from abroad too (needed to use a Wireguard tunnel to the US).

I’m very impressed Google fi didn’t shut you off, I’ve heard around the web they do that pretty regularly within 3-4 months of moving

That started only recently, around 2020ish. If you don't use the data (basic plan) and access your sms and vms via a web page using a VPN, you are ok (first hand experience, expat in EU)

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#176

Post by genewitch »

ThaDood wrote: post #155
pard68 wrote: post #147

Get an account with a FCU. Not saying it'll solve this out right, but it's nice to be a human and not an account number.

FCU? Friendly Credit Union?

Federal Credit Union, they have the Federal Deposit Insurance. Whatever that means. I do know that when the California Franchise Tax Board erroneously claimed i owed them a few hundred dollars that J.P. Morgan Chase Manhattan locked me out of my account within minutes - and charged me ~$150 for the pleasure - but neither my credit union nor my Mellon bank accounts were affected at all.

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#177

Post by patmcc »

toast0 wrote: post #122
patmcc wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>>Banks shouldn’t be allowed to ban anyone. This gets pretty tricky - telling a bank they need to keep dealing with customers that cost them tons of money and are actively trying to defraud them (and other customers) seems awfully harsh. I think the government should provide a basic bank account to anyone who wants one though.

Postal banking could be an option, but otherwise, the federal government seems to not want to deal with the customer service involved in running a banking operation. It would probably be more reasonable to make some sort of tightly regulated basic bank account that banks would be required to offer in some situations. Nobody would be happy, but hold all deposits for a long period, so that they fully clear. Possibly re…

>>>It would probably be more reasonable to make some sort of tightly regulated basic bank account that banks would be required to offer in some situations.

Yeah, I'd be ok with this. Require banks to provide some MVP 'bank account' to anyone that isn't already declared banking-persona-non-grata by the courts.

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#178

Post by peyton »

obviouslynotme wrote: post #138
cwillu wrote: post #14

It's remarkable how totalitarianism seeps in.

Most people are totalitarian in a few ways. Some people hate drugs. Everyone hates crime. The homeless cause social issues. Some people want their religion enforced. Some people hate foreigners. Most people grant these powers to the government hoping to get their pet peeve taken care of, and are surprised when the government not only doesn't do what they promised, but turn those powers onto its own favorite victims i…

Totalitarianism means the state has total authority. There’s no such thing as à la carte totalitarianism. How we deal with crime, drugs, religion, homelessness, and assimilation falls under social contract theory.

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#179

Post by MrVandemar »

constantly wrote: post #86
kylehotchkiss wrote: post #78

Protip to anybody who wants to spend an extended amount of time overseas - you’re looking at a strong opportunity to join the list of people who have their accounts closed. Red flags include quantity of overseas debit card transactions, setting a PO Box (this one apparently is a very big red flag to banks) or a PMB as your bank address, lots of wire transfers. Open multiple bank accounts at different banks, use servi…

edit

> on balance detrimental to society relatively recently

Let's not forget Crypto mining has a not insignificant energy footprint, and is a driver of climate change. Really, detrimental to society from the get-go.

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#180

Post by musictubes »

kylehotchkiss wrote: post #78

Protip to anybody who wants to spend an extended amount of time overseas - you’re looking at a strong opportunity to join the list of people who have their accounts closed. Red flags include quantity of overseas debit card transactions, setting a PO Box (this one apparently is a very big red flag to banks) or a PMB as your bank address, lots of wire transfers. Open multiple bank accounts at different banks, use servi…

I moved from the US to Yemen from 2006-2008. After I got the travel details figured out I realized I would need some way of getting money while I was there. Freaked out for a bit, figured that with the war on terror ongoing it would prove to be incredibly difficult.

Turns out my ATM card worked fine while I was over there. I did let the bank know I would be there and I kept my address in the US though. My card got locked at one point which was a disaster since it was strictly a cash economy. I put the card into an ATM that was apparently being serviced or something. I had to get on Skype (remember Skype?) to call my bank to straighten it out. Once they gave me the go ahead I tried the next day only to be denied again. Turned out Visa wanted to talk to me as well. Thankfully they did not cancel the card, I have no idea how I would have gotten a replacement.

Since I told the bank ahead of time that I was going to be going many places the ATM card worked all over the place: Yemen, Dubai, Qatar, Turkey, Greece, Malta… Everywhere except China lol. Had to use my credit card there.

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