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Waymo says insurance data shows its driverless cars are safer than humans

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Re: Waymo says insurance data shows its driverless cars are safer than humans

#171

Post by Dylan16807 »

otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #105
Dylan16807 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you drive a car that kills a child, you (potentially) go to jail. If you weren't being negligent, the odds of going to jail are very low. We can and should have the same "potential" for the people designing the car's software. But Waymo seems to be developing their code properly so it would never trigger for them. > Are you really advocating a world where we change the laws to give Waymo a license to kill? Every…

> But Waymo seems to be developing their code properly so it would never trigger for them. Allow me to not trust what their marketing department says. These are legal issues, "fake it till you make it" doesn't work here.

Sure, don't trust them, but at least see it's very possible, and that not being punished in that case wouldn't really be different from normal drivers.

Re: Waymo says insurance data shows its driverless cars are safer than humans

#172

Post by dagw »

soco wrote: post #170
sw104 wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where I live in Northern England, buses are (amongst other reasons) mostly hampered in their reliability by delays and cancellations caused by sharing roads congested with cars. Here there's an almost palpable attitude of disgust towards using the bus. Almost a me versus the plebs attitude. The car represents the people's private island. It would be slightly improved if people moved from tank-like SUVs to smaller car…

So let me understand this: waiting stuck in traffic in your car (self-driving or not) is acceptable, but waiting stuck in traffic in a bus is not?

In my car I have a comfy seat and can control my environment (noise, temperature etc.) and whom I share the space with. On the bus I'm often standing and crammed in between dozens of other people. Also the really big problem isn't being stuck in traffic on the bus, but being stuck standing in the cold at the bus stop waiting for the bus that is stuck in traffic or cancelled.

Re: Waymo says insurance data shows its driverless cars are safer than humans

#173

Post by n2d4 »

gambiting wrote: post #147
n2d4 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Less traffic and no parking is compatible because there are fewer total cars, as Waymos are shared.

I don't see any indication(other than some people on HN saying this) that people would not want to own a personal vehicle anymore just because self driving cars are a thing. Whether the car drives itself or not, people want to have their own personal space. Not to mention the (very common) need for things like child seats which don't really work with shared cars.

Well, that is Waymo's plan, which is explicitly a robotaxi, that this article is about. If we were talking about Teslas, the self-driving vision for instance would be different.

Re: Waymo says insurance data shows its driverless cars are safer than humans

#174

Post by Dylan16807 »

prmoustache wrote: post #118
Dylan16807 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need to set up alternatives or you're destroying lives and they'll drive anyway.

This is knee jerk reaction. Why the states and cities would have their role to increase public transit, other alternatives would set them up naturally in fact from private sector or people adopting other means of transportation. [1] which would become immediately more profitable or less unprofitable depending on the area.

In the areas where it's not profitable enough, it won't get set up. And we can guarantee that states and cities will leave huge gaps.

Re: Waymo says insurance data shows its driverless cars are safer than humans

#175

Post by HPsquared »

soco wrote: post #170
sw104 wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where I live in Northern England, buses are (amongst other reasons) mostly hampered in their reliability by delays and cancellations caused by sharing roads congested with cars. Here there's an almost palpable attitude of disgust towards using the bus. Almost a me versus the plebs attitude. The car represents the people's private island. It would be slightly improved if people moved from tank-like SUVs to smaller car…

So let me understand this: waiting stuck in traffic in your car (self-driving or not) is acceptable, but waiting stuck in traffic in a bus is not?

It's the difference between sitting on your couch at home, and sitting on a bench at the train station.

Re: Waymo says insurance data shows its driverless cars are safer than humans

#176

Post by peebeebee »

sw104 wrote: post #160
cipheredStones wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that someone always makes this sort of comment when driverless cars come up is really weird to me. I've never owned a car, use public transit very regularly, and think the state of it in the US is pretty bad and underinvested in. However, that's due to a huge set of systemic factors (political, organizational, spatial, ...) which nobody seems to have made much progress on, and not for lack of trying. Yeah, i…

Where I live in Northern England, buses are (amongst other reasons) mostly hampered in their reliability by delays and cancellations caused by sharing roads congested with cars. Here there's an almost palpable attitude of disgust towards using the bus. Almost a me versus the plebs attitude. The car represents the people's private island. It would be slightly improved if people moved from tank-like SUVs to smaller car…

It's not people's behaviour. It's the state of public transport. Lots of delays, dirty seats, crowded spaces, weird smells, hard noises, jerky movements etc etc etc. I'd be okay if the state would ban cars, and put all that money into extremely well thought out public transport. But that won't happen.

Re: Waymo says insurance data shows its driverless cars are safer than humans

#177

Post by jwhiles »

a_humean wrote: post #161
sw104 wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where I live in Northern England, buses are (amongst other reasons) mostly hampered in their reliability by delays and cancellations caused by sharing roads congested with cars. Here there's an almost palpable attitude of disgust towards using the bus. Almost a me versus the plebs attitude. The car represents the people's private island. It would be slightly improved if people moved from tank-like SUVs to smaller car…

In London, which is a much denser city that any in Northern England, that attitude to buses and public transport is not shared. We have had a lot more sustained investment into reliable and affordable public transport. The lack of comparable investment in northern cities is of course not really the fault of the cities in question (London centric institutions, political culture, and voting base power).

In London I personally always try and cycle beucase I know that any bus I get is likely going to be slower because they are continually stuck in car traffic. Especially during rush hours.

Annoyingly, the time when I would like to get public transport most is when it rains. And this is also when the public transport becomes slowest and least reliable.

Re: Waymo says insurance data shows its driverless cars are safer than humans

#178

Post by hombre_fatal »

soco wrote: post #170
sw104 wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where I live in Northern England, buses are (amongst other reasons) mostly hampered in their reliability by delays and cancellations caused by sharing roads congested with cars. Here there's an almost palpable attitude of disgust towards using the bus. Almost a me versus the plebs attitude. The car represents the people's private island. It would be slightly improved if people moved from tank-like SUVs to smaller car…

So let me understand this: waiting stuck in traffic in your car (self-driving or not) is acceptable, but waiting stuck in traffic in a bus is not?

Of course, because in your personal car you have your own A/C, music, comfort, privacy, and agency. A bus really needs its own lane instead of being stuck in traffic with all the other schmucks who refuse to take it, but few US cities have the balls to do it.

Re: Waymo says insurance data shows its driverless cars are safer than humans

#179

Post by n2d4 »

lozenge wrote: post #156
n2d4 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Less traffic and no parking is compatible because there are fewer total cars, as Waymos are shared.

If 60% of people want to travel at 8:30am and they don't want to share a vehicle, then there needs to be that many cars and space for them to park. You can park them further away from their destination, this increases traffic massively driving to the parking. As well, if the ride is comfortable then people will be willing to plan longer commutes. An induced demand which increases the number of miles driven and hence…

If at peak time only 60% of people are driving that means we saved 40% of parking space at no traffic cost, even if we just park the cars normally! That is significant.

I'm also convinced that the peak share of vehicles in use is less than 60% at any time of the day and year, but happy to be proven wrong.

Re: Waymo says insurance data shows its driverless cars are safer than humans

#180

Post by prmoustache »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #174
prmoustache wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is knee jerk reaction. Why the states and cities would have their role to increase public transit, other alternatives would set them up naturally in fact from private sector or people adopting other means of transportation. [1] which would become immediately more profitable or less unprofitable depending on the area.

In the areas where it's not profitable enough, it won't get set up. And we can guarantee that states and cities will leave huge gaps.

And people would share drive or whatever it takes to make up for that.
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