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Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

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Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#171
post #153

> Songtradr had no access to union membership information and we executed our employment offer process with full-consideration of all legal requirements I know this won't be a popular thing to say, but I'd like to take a moment to thank Songtradr for consulting their lawyers and full-considering all legal requirements. I believe them when they say they didn't legally acquire the union's documentation on membership. B…

they’re a licensing company, legal requirements are their bread and butter

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the UK, many IT roles can join the Communication Workers Union[0] [0]: https://www.cwu.org/

Thanks to updated IR35 employers can bypass unions altogether. As IT deemed employees don't get any employment rights.

What's the issue if it only applies to contractors?

I'm very pro-union btw but my understanding is that IR35 doesn't apply to FTEs, so no need for full union rights - at least in the case of short-term contractors (who choose money and flexibility over security). Agency temps (on equivalent or lower pay than FTEs) are a different matter and may need protection. Long term contractors are disguised FTEs so their choice again, probably not normally an issue.

But perhaps I'm misunderstanding the law or the point?

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you have shares - you are exploited for your surplus value. This is true for any and all wage based labour.

Do you mean because the company values my labor more than they pay me, that's exploitation? How about when I buy eggs from the grocery and value them more than they cost me, so that there is consumer surplus. Is that exploitation?

[dead]

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#175
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IT doesn’t traditionally gafe unions in the USA. Teachers are unionized here and are one of the most powerful political forces. They are also a likely reason why so many people here don’t like unions.

> Teachers are unionized here and are one of the most powerful political forces. This does not seem compatible with all the stories I've heard about underpaid teachers having to buy material for their students out of their own pocket. I'm sure it somehow ends up both being true in a twisted way, but it still sounds strange.

"Buying things out of pocket" was such a smart tactic from the union. Have each teacher buy a box of pencils for a few dollars and complain loudly so people think you are spending much more.

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#176
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And in the EU it is probably why they have free healthcare, high minimum wage, work weeks of 34-38 hrs, welfare, 8 hour work days, overtime after, high proportion of part time workers, and highest productivity per hour in Germany. But yeah, unions, hate what you gotta hate. I personally hate long hours for bullshit pay.

Well, it's not really free healthcare, at least not here in Finland. You're expected to spend at least an hour every day exercising with all the time we have off here to make sure you don't get super sick in the first place. In practice then we actually work 45 hours a week every week.

> You're expected to spend at least an hour every day exercising with all the time we have off here

I have absolutely no idea what you are on about, this is not as common as you seem to think. Who is expecting this of you?

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seeing the headline, and remembering that 50% of employees were laid off, my first thought was: "what're the odds?" I assume I'd have to use NCR or something to calculate that. I know the upper (rarest) bound is 1/2^40, but it's likely much more likely, and not random.

As an HR would say, those people are "a bad cultural fit", which legitimately raises the probability of them being laid off to 100%. Simple.

That sounds plausible as a rationale. In my experience "bad culture fit" has been used as a stand in for "I don't want this person working here and I don't want to explain why" about 80% of the time.

The reason is often racism. This time it could legitimately be illegal union busting.

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seeing the headline, and remembering that 50% of employees were laid off, my first thought was: "what're the odds?" I assume I'd have to use NCR or something to calculate that. I know the upper (rarest) bound is 1/2^40, but it's likely much more likely, and not random.

As an HR would say, those people are "a bad cultural fit", which legitimately raises the probability of them being laid off to 100%. Simple.

If that went to an arbitration, the HR would have some difficulty unless they could show a paper trail (eg emails in which people expressed concern about the cultural fit of these individuals) ahead of time. They could of course have paved the way by preparing such a trail ahead of time…

But that would lead the way to the question of why this was a redundancy rather than dismissal for cause.

Im not any sort of lawyer let alone an employment lawyer, but I’m sure there are some employment lawyers getting in touch with these folks now to test their interest in pushing a case.

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#179
post #99

Bandcamp has served me well for many years, but I don't use it anymore. I would really like to see something like Castopod [0], but for artists! Spinning up a website where you showcase and sell your music should (and could!) be as easy as using Wordpress, either via a subscription or self-hosted – on your own domain. Being plugged into the Fediverse makes it much easier to interact with fans and build a connection w…

If you're not a technical type you will not be bothered with setting up a website so that's why I think centralized services will always win. It's similar to why people don't make their own websites but just post to social media. I can imagine a 1-click solution that would set up everything. But bandcamp also has this functionality where labels can list their artists etc so I think it wouldn't work that well.

Thats why I used Wordpress and Castopod as examples, as both offer subscription services in addition to self-hosting. The most important part is the option to use your own domain name, so an artist can take controll over its own brand and keep options open for the future.

Wordpress has already integrated with the Fediverse, btw!

Re: Bandcamp's Entire Union Bargaining Team Was Laid Off

#180
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Isn't this a statistical catch-22? If being in a union increases the odds of getting fired… well, then there's nothing to discuss because that's illegal. Extreme example: suppose a company has 100 employees. Four of them are in the union bargaining team and they just happen to all work for the widgets department because of an accident of history or randomness etc. The widgets department has 10 people overall. Now t…

You've given a really clear example of confusing probabilities! Would this be an instance of Simpson's Paradox?

You can characterize it that way:

    P(lose job | bargainer): 50%
    P(lose job | not bargainer): 6.25%

but

    -----widgets team-----
      P(lose job | bargainer) 50%
      P(lose job | not bargainer) 100%
    -----everyone else----
      P(lose job | bargainer) NaN
      P(lose job | not bargainer) 0%
    ----------------------
Simpson's paradox in its prototypical form occurs when the comparison drawn in the top table (of just one cell) is reversed in every cell of the bottom table. (Which has two cells, here.)

This isn't the cleanest example, since the comparison at the bottom can't be drawn at all. But the way the problem is narrated, it would counterfactually have exhibited the paradox.

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