Kagi finally let me lay Google Search to rest • Hacker News Board

Re: Kagi finally let me lay Google Search to rest

#171

Post by johnnyanmac » Thu, Oct 12, 2023, 7:54 AM UTC

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote: post #161

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Aren't your Kagi searches tied to a payment method? Kagi accepts Bitcoin [1]. They also “do not log searches or in any way tie them to an account” [2]. [1] https://help.kagi.com/kagi/plans/payment-methods.html [2] https://help.kagi.com/kagi/privacy/privacy-protection.html

There were studies where it took as little as 10 searches to find out your exact identity. If you pay per month, month's worth of searches is more than enough to de-anonymize you. Ideal solution would involve pay-per-search.

That's surprising given how I assume the pareto principle applies to search terms.

>Ideal solution would involve pay-per-search.

I guess if you're really hardcore and are willing to trigger a transaction per search.

But in reality it doesn't work becsuse there's a small transaction fee for every charge. So it's really hard to charge below a dollar without major penalties. You can get around that with a token system, but we go right back to square one. I guess that's one problem crypto mitigates.

Re: Kagi finally let me lay Google Search to rest

#172

Post by johnnyanmac » Thu, Oct 12, 2023, 8:00 AM UTC

manonthewall wrote: post #126

pkulak wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Kagi keeps charging, it will never be popular. They could lower their price to $0.99 a year with the same result. And that's a good thing.

It's unlikely they can make a profit doing that. Servers, devs, etc cost money. This way they keep the audience smaller and can make money as well. It's a business, so you do what you gotta do.

I think the main point was that any price barrier over 0 dollars limits your audience, regardless of profitability. That literal pay wall simply makes people start to question. Especially if a "free" alternative exists and they don't care about the pitch (in this case, privacy or less low quality results in search).

That's arguably a good thing since a premium model mitigates the temptation of ad or data selling based approaches. But the fact is many don't care nor mind those as long as they aren't extremely intrusive. Even if they are (full page banner ad with small x), they may tolerate it anyway.

Re: Kagi finally let me lay Google Search to rest

#173

Post by johnnyanmac » Thu, Oct 12, 2023, 8:11 AM UTC

NetOpWibby wrote: post #116

sxg wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kagi doesn't need to win, and they know that. Kagi just has to focus on serving a tiny percentage of Google power users in order to be profitable and induce Google search to compete.

I wish Neeva knew that too but ah well. I feel like a lot of people on here share the mindset that unless Google can be demolished, there’s no point in being a competitor…which is, a dumb take IMHO.

Common mentality even outside of tech. Guess those people forgot the days of indie labels or mom and pop shop. Can't really blame them given that being the intent for decsdes.

For Google, it very roughly makes about $25 per year per user in 2019. But it has an estimated 4 billion users. If you can take even 1% of 1% of these users, thats still 400k users. So you're still bringing on $10m a year if you keep the same price.

Now of course Kagi is nowhere near that 400k figure, but also charges more. So you see how it can add up.

Re: Kagi finally let me lay Google Search to rest

#174

Post by reportgunner » Thu, Oct 12, 2023, 9:07 AM UTC

smcleod wrote: post #42

Urgo wrote: post #41

Been using Duck Duck Go for maybe three or so years now? It's very rare I fallback to google other then for google maps (!gm). I do make heavy use of ChatGPT and Bard though. I wish there was more example results then just "best headphones", "steve jobs", and "python exceptions". I'm interested, but not interested enough to sign up. Maybe its just me, but all the marketing and comments are why to switch away from goo…

I’ve found Kagis search results far better than DDG, not even in the same ballpark.

How can you find the searches better if I find what I'm looking for every time I search ?

Re: Kagi finally let me lay Google Search to rest

#175

Post by reportgunner » Thu, Oct 12, 2023, 9:10 AM UTC

theshrike79 wrote: post #142

Is Kagi really that good or is their Astroturfing game just next level? I've never heard anyone say anything bad about it - and we're still talking about a $10/month search engine. Something that has been historically free at all times.

I suspect people just use it instead of adblock. I'm getting a strong Brave browser user vibe from these recurrent waves of Kagi users.

Re: Kagi finally let me lay Google Search to rest

#176

Post by reportgunner » Thu, Oct 12, 2023, 9:12 AM UTC

wutwutwat wrote: post #153

Maybe my shit is all being MITM’d but Google, DDG, and Kagi all spit out the same useless results. Doesn’t matter what I search for, and I’m not searching for anything special, just everyday random things. Search has regressed to ask Jeeves days imo

What are you searching for ?

Re: Kagi finally let me lay Google Search to rest

#177

Post by JumpCrisscross » Thu, Oct 12, 2023, 9:19 AM UTC

reilly3000 wrote: post #135

Lazare wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, although if you think about it a bit: With a VPN you're hoping there's no logs at all, and it's pretty easy for a VPN vendor - entirely by accident - to keep some logs around. And then a search warrant lands, they look around, find the logs, and the promise is broken. And it's entirely possible for that to happen by accident. So if I pay for a commercial VPN that claims they don't keep logs, I'm gambling on thei…

What if your searches are about something illegal? Wouldn’t Kagi have to comply with a search warrant? Pun weakly intended.

> Wouldn’t Kagi have to comply with a search warrant?

You can't find what isn't there. And there is not logging requirement in America. So put simply, no. If you searched for something sinister, and the U.S. government inquired, Kargi would--if they aren't lying--pose no risk to you.

If your concern goes beyond that, you're beyond bilateral trust. The concept of a search engine is beyond you.

Re: Kagi finally let me lay Google Search to rest

#178

Post by smcleod » Thu, Oct 12, 2023, 9:22 AM UTC

reportgunner wrote: post #174

smcleod wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve found Kagis search results far better than DDG, not even in the same ballpark.

How can you find the searches better if I find what I'm looking for every time I search ?

I found the quality of DDG searches really quite poor - worse than Google even. Not so much sponsored content but it’s like it lacked understanding of the context of what I was searching for which is something I find Kagi does well.

Re: Kagi finally let me lay Google Search to rest

#179

Post by smcleod » Thu, Oct 12, 2023, 9:23 AM UTC

Urgo wrote: post #43

smcleod wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve found Kagis search results far better than DDG, not even in the same ballpark.

If you could provide screen shots or a writeup of HOW they are better that would be helpful. Kogi fans just seems to say its better without really any examples. Not saying its not better, but no one has really shown how it is better.

I haven’t opened Google in a few years but I’ll try to remember to compare some results and provide you screenshots tomorrow or this weekend. I’m surprised others haven’t already done this!

Re: Kagi finally let me lay Google Search to rest

#180

Post by 2-718-281-828 » Thu, Oct 12, 2023, 9:23 AM UTC

how good is kagi compared to google for languages other than english? german, russian, chinese etc

does kagi also censor illegal content or content residing in a gray zone? like porn, streaming movies, torrenting, racism etc

does kagi censor so called fake news and dangerous misinformation with regard to corona for example?