Live data from Hacker News

China is flooding Taiwan with disinformation

economist.com

171–180 of 197 posts

Re: China is flooding Taiwan with disinformation

#171
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fake news. I haven't seen any uptick in bots or coordinated activity. You might be following the wrong sort of accounts.

There are countless articles like this: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/sep/09/x-twitter...

I don't believe that article is accurate. It's more like some guy's biased opinion than a serious quantitative analysis.

Re: China is flooding Taiwan with disinformation

#172

The expression "flooding with disinformation" is the hallmark of biased reporting. Why is only one side considered as "disinformation" while the other side is assumed to be only talking the truth? The only conclusion I can reach is that the economist is doing here the very same thing they're accusing the other side.

'Both sides' is a core part of the authoritarian propaganda playbook. Pretending that occasional manipulation in the information produced by Liberal democracies is somehow equivalent to the constant stream of lies autocracies produce, is part of how they stop their people wanting change.

The goal of the "disinformation flooding" narrative is exactly to avoid any kernel of truth that other nations may be telling. If someone says anything that goes against the US narrative, they will immediately say that it is result of the "disinformation campaign", not the fact that the person concluded independently that this single piece of information may be correct. You can see this happening in this very discussion board.

Re: China is flooding Taiwan with disinformation

#173
post #90

The expression "flooding with disinformation" is the hallmark of biased reporting. Why is only one side considered as "disinformation" while the other side is assumed to be only talking the truth? The only conclusion I can reach is that the economist is doing here the very same thing they're accusing the other side.

A better term would be “propaganda” or psychological warfare, something CCP and PLA each have dedicated units for.

Don't forget the other country that has dedicated propaganda units:

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-op...

Re: China is flooding Taiwan with disinformation

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, you raise a good point. It's also useful to consider how the idea that the leader for life of the country is going insane could be felt to be denigrating to the country and could be considered to be part of the general China-crash tropes. For the sake of good analysis, it's important to focus on real alternatives to that hypothesis, and avoid getting bogged down in semantics.

Twisting yourself in knots to avoid an unpleasent conclusion, serves nothing either. Liberal democracies arose out of the realisation that autocracies have bad endings like this.

But you’re doing the thing you’re against.

Pretending Xi is insane is twisting yourself in knots to avoid the unpleasant conclusion that China is a challenge to the West that won’t conveniently fail.

So often people are first to accuse others of what they are themselves…

Re: China is flooding Taiwan with disinformation

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a bizarre idea. China wants Taiwan because they consider it a renegade province. I doubt they care about one fab.

Everyone can dig out ancient maps and declare something renegade. Defacto Taiwan is a independent nation, with a very different (not purged aka original) Chinese culture. Russia claims Ukraine, Poland and GDr to be renegade provinces. Should we just accept that.

Old maps are the reason for the continuing border disputes between India and China.

Every few years they pull out their maps and we pull out our maps.

Re: China is flooding Taiwan with disinformation

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuine Q, how am I supposed to connect this Github with this account or the 2011 claim?

The project that I'm known for, sh.py, was launched on HN 12 years ago, dig up the post if you're interested.

But how do I connect it with this account?

Re: China is flooding Taiwan with disinformation

#177
post #162

He suggests many Taiwanese have an “orphan mentality”: they fear abandonment by outsiders because of Taiwan’s experience of losing American diplomatic recognition in the 1970s. This was insightful for me, actually. I never thought of this before. It explains a lot! All journalists in Taiwan serve the bias of their newspapers’ bosses, says Mr Wang, who has worked for both pro-independence and pro-unification newspaper…

Rumor has it that many Taiwanese named ugly street dogs “Carter” for years because of what Jimmy Carter’s admin did with their recognition.

It reminds me very much of this episode from Chinese history, which shows an equally mirrored-but-subdued statement of defiance after rejection:

Project 596 was named after the month of June 1959 in which it was initiated as an independent nuclear project, immediately after Nikita Khrushchev decided to stop helping the Chinese with their nuclear program on 20 June 1959, and Mao shifted toward an overall policy of self-reliance.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_596

Re: China is flooding Taiwan with disinformation

#178

> America had asked Taiwan to manufacture biological weapons at a lab run by the island’s defence ministry, the report claimed. This reminds me a lot of the (presumably Russian disinformation) story that flitted around American conservative spheres early in the Ukraine war saying that the US gov was setting up bio weapon labs at the border with Russia and that's why the Russian invasion was justified. Funny how the e…

[flagged]

Re: China is flooding Taiwan with disinformation

#179
post #145
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is said by "Rep. Seth Moulton (Mass.) — one of the Democratic Party’s leading voices on defense": Speaking at a Milken Institute panel in Los Angeles, Moulton said: “One of the interesting ideas that’s been floated out there for deterrence is just making it very clear to the Chinese that if you invade Taiwan, we’re going to blow up TSMC.” He continued: “I just throw that out not because that’s necessarily the be…

> And of course, the Taiwanese really don’t like this idea. Reminds me of when Biden was standing next to the German chancellor and said he'd make sure Nord Stream would be stopped if Russia ever invaded Ukraine and then when Russia invaded Ukraine and Nord Stream was blown up, everyone just ignored it.

Don't worry, there are plenty of doublethink practitioners who believes that Russia blew up Nord Stream, pipelines that supplies Russian gas to Germany that Russia already turned off the tap at the source.

Look at the incentives and consequences of blowing up TSMC if China uses the military. China would not have access to the high end chips; Taiwan loses a bargaining chip of its own, and would suffer a huge economic cost (a lot of electricity is used up by TSMC alone); and US is the one who gets to point at the big bad PRC throwing weapons at ROC, and know that PRC gets a road block on the semiconductor front.

Re: China is flooding Taiwan with disinformation

#180
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can repeat the 2020 election the “most safe and secure” election ever. Funny how Russia and China sat that one out huh? Guess they’d let the other team win one.

The safe and secure claim was largely around the conduct of the election itself, whereas US adversaries largely deployed disinfo and propaganda tactics to interfere in the election. So, not sure they sat it out as much as the U.S. was a little better prepared. For instance, social media platforms did a better job of not being completely owned as fire hoses for propaganda and disinfo. Of course, some then complained t…

[deleted]
Post reply on HN