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LARPing and Violent Extremism

leb.fbi.gov

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Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#171

Post by jstarfish »

Jensson wrote: post #75
georgeecollins wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the top post that the title confused me. But reading the article I came away with a very different take than you. This person is trying to define the difference between LARPing and being terrorist. That may be obvious to someone who knows LARPers, but not everyone does. I really don't think that the police are going to be a problem for people in fantasy gear, cosplaying, or re-enacting a historical battl…

> I really don't think that the police are going to be a problem for people in fantasy gear, cosplaying, or re-enacting a historical battle. I have never heard of it. But now with these guidelines police has a reason to go after them. Something like: "I just followed these guidelines, it says you are showing terrorist signs and aren't real LARPers". They didn't do that before, but guidelines like these changes behavi…

You're being histrionic. Nobody is coming for your LotR LARP group.

These guidelines are literally an attempt to distinguish actual terrorists from people who insist on pretending to be terrorists. It's as much good faith as you can hope for from the government, considering the domain.

None of this applies to you even if you're in the park wearing full Orc battlegear, are belligerent, drunk in public, and urinate on the arresting officer.

Here's how low the bar is:

> Among violent extremists, there may be online discussions about and guidance in using LARP as an excuse during encounters with law enforcement,

Actual LARPers don't need to be reminded to tell cops that they're LARPing. The bar is that fucking low. They'll even accept lorebooks and stats sheets as proof.

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#172

Post by PixyMisa »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #120
slavboj wrote: post #60

"Role players will not discuss law enforcement concerns on social media or provide guidance to each other if confronted by an officer. Also, they will have no demonstrated interest in criminal cases involving claims of LARP." Your resistance proves your guilt. Insisting on your fourth and fifth amendment rights? Noting other cases where innocent hobbyists were threatened and trying to avoid the same? Seems like viole…

I didn't interpret it that way at all. I interpreted it as having familiarity with cases of actual terrorists using a defense of claimed LARPing suggests you researched this to make up a cover story.

More like the FBI created a huge splash when it funded, planned, and led the Whitmer kidnapping plot.

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#173

Post by PixyMisa »

kens wrote: post #83
flangola7 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once you realize many individuals see written language not as a means to share ideas and have mutual constructive discussion, but as just another weapon to achieve their ends, a lot of human interactions (especially online) make a lot more sense. It's very dangerous since many of us (myself included) instinctively assume good faith and approach conflicts as possible misunderstandings or opportunities for constructive…

That reminds me of Scalzi's interesting post "The Gamification of Rhetoric". He describes how many people are not interested in issues or discussion, but are just trying to win with a sequence of stock arguments. He refers to this as slapping down cards from a "Debate: The Gathering" stack. https://whatever.scalzi.com/2018/08/03/the-gamification-of-r...

Notably, John Scalzi.

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#174

Post by DoItToMe81 »

kr0bat wrote: post #10

They used the term LARP a lot more literally than I expected. Although the history of LARP as a legal defense is narrow, the authors share the concern that it may soon become commonplace. Early attempts at such a strategy have been made by a defendant acting alone or in loose cooperation with members of a fantasy group who knew each other only in the virtual world, claiming “artistic expression” to excuse threatening…

They don't have a page because they don't make the distinction. And, generally, once they're called in, have the idea of securing a conviction at any cost.

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#175

Post by H8crilA »

kramerger wrote: post #169
weswilson wrote: post #127

Most of us here probably think of LARPing as fantasy-genre LARPing, but I think this is more pointed toward Mil-Sim LARPing. These are hardcore airsoft guys who go buy comms, night-vision, IR, with airsoft weapons that function like real weapons. There are multi-day events with NATO vs RUS forces. Look up "milsim west" on Youtube and you can get a sense of it. There's a good amount of folks that just like to have fun…

The crazy/normal ratio among milsim larpers is EXTREMLY high. Just listen to the language they use in YT videos to describe other participants and general public There is this odd thing about the human brain that as soon as it is in a group and have tools of violence at hand it will often start planing to take over the society

Luckily individual soldiers without heavy equipment (at least some artillery) are more or less useless in a proper military showdown. Has been the case at least since WW2.

ISIS was a good example, they were being quickly defeated by pretty much everyone involved in the Syrian conflict.

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#176

Post by H8crilA »

jrflowers wrote: post #126
slavboj wrote: post #60

"Role players will not discuss law enforcement concerns on social media or provide guidance to each other if confronted by an officer. Also, they will have no demonstrated interest in criminal cases involving claims of LARP." Your resistance proves your guilt. Insisting on your fourth and fifth amendment rights? Noting other cases where innocent hobbyists were threatened and trying to avoid the same? Seems like viole…

> Insisting on your fourth and fifth amendment rights? This is a good point. When I am in character as a LARP law enthusiast that’s LARPing as a violent extremist, my in-character explanation of why I am not criminally liable for my OC’s OC’s behavior to police are a violation of my rights.

Your rights do not depend on you being "in character" or not. The only state of mind that affects your rights is insanity. Insert the meme about "finding out".

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#177

Post by parineum »

crazygringo wrote: post #24

I was definitely confused by this article at first, thinking it was some silly guide for law enforcement which can't tell the difference between criminals and LARPers...?? But no -- it's actually about terrorists and criminals trying to claim in court that their criminal planning wasn't that at all, but just LARPing: > For example, after Kaleb Franks was arrested in October 2020 for plotting to abduct Michigan Govern…

> When armed militia members claim all of their organizing/preparation is just recreational, and totally unlinked to violence that members do eventually commit, it's important to have delineated standards to be able to refute that.

I think the delineation between the members to that eventually commit violence and the ones who can successfully use the "LARPing" defense is whether or not they committed any crimes. It's pretty simple to me. This sounds, to me, a lot more like a guide on how to convict people who committed no crimes associated with the criminals who did.

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#178

Post by latency-guy2 »

faeriechangling wrote: post #153
kr0bat wrote: post #10

They used the term LARP a lot more literally than I expected. Although the history of LARP as a legal defense is narrow, the authors share the concern that it may soon become commonplace. Early attempts at such a strategy have been made by a defendant acting alone or in loose cooperation with members of a fantasy group who knew each other only in the virtual world, claiming “artistic expression” to excuse threatening…

Well fuck the feds for snooping on all our conversations honestly. When we don't have privacy, people collectively engaging in edgy irony to the point you can't distinguish the signal from the noise provides people with a level of free speech.

Well the feds in this case is around 30 other countries doing the spying for them and then sharing the information so as to avoid domestic laws in their own country. France, Germany, Britain, New Zealand, Canada, Japan, and obviously the U.S. are the current biggest players

It's only fair that the people do not comply, seeing as we know none of these countries have a problem with violating rights whenever they desire.

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#179

Post by parineum »

pixl97 wrote: post #162
faeriechangling wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well fuck the feds for snooping on all our conversations honestly. When we don't have privacy, people collectively engaging in edgy irony to the point you can't distinguish the signal from the noise provides people with a level of free speech.

"Posts on a public site...Complains about privacy" What the hell you are going on about man. If you post something like "Hey, lets shoot some cops", or hell "lets start shooting ____" online you are giving up your right to privacy. Yes, the US legal system has means of taking the 'evidence' you posted online in front of a judge and getting a warrant. Via the warrant system nearly complete dismantling of your privacy…

Neither of those things would be a basis for something like a search warrant because the threat is not specific and credible. It's not a crime to say, "Hey, let's shoot some cops". It would be a crime to say, "Hey, let's hang out in front of the local police station and shoot some cops tomorrow morning. Bring your guns."

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#180

Post by langsoul-com »

H8crilA wrote: post #175
kramerger wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The crazy/normal ratio among milsim larpers is EXTREMLY high. Just listen to the language they use in YT videos to describe other participants and general public There is this odd thing about the human brain that as soon as it is in a group and have tools of violence at hand it will often start planing to take over the society

Luckily individual soldiers without heavy equipment (at least some artillery) are more or less useless in a proper military showdown. Has been the case at least since WW2. ISIS was a good example, they were being quickly defeated by pretty much everyone involved in the Syrian conflict.

I think you should look into the middle east a bit more. Taliban are still around and now control the place.

Individuals might not have heavy weapons to start. But with enough time, weapon destructivness reaches a parity.

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