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OSS Game Engines are increasing their stars on GitHub due to Unity's missteps

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Re: OSS Game Engines are increasing their stars on GitHub due to Unity's missteps

#171

Post by qwytw »

toastercat wrote: post #80
qwytw wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> approachable language like python Python doesn't really scale though and it's fine only for simple games/scripting (on top of a game mainly built with another language). If you're serious about game development you'll have to switch to C# or C++ eventually. Also I don't see how C# is not "approachable" (C++ is another manner). If you're serious about programming you'll have to figure out static typing at some point…

> If you're serious about game development you'll have to switch to C# or C++ eventually. Were the creators of Undertale, Hyper Light Drifter, and Hotline Miami not "serious" because they chose to use GameMaker? I understand the pitfalls of using lightweight scripting languages, but not everyone is trying to create Doom Eternal.

You're right, it depends on the type of the game you want to build. Also I was really only thinking about the "programming" part of game development.

Re: OSS Game Engines are increasing their stars on GitHub due to Unity's missteps

#172

Post by nottorp »

maccard wrote: post #159
butz wrote: post #155

Remember the time when each game company had their own engine? And that led to many technological marvels, like RollerCoaster Tycoon by Chris Sawyer, to name one. Now innovation in game engines seems to be stalled, as big ones are just looking how to push more ads, instead of more polygons. Maybe building own game engine will become a thing again?

> And that led to many technological marvels, like RollerCoaster Tycoon by Chris Sawyer, to name one. Game engines for modern AAA games are too big and complex to be just one person these days. > Now innovation in game engines seems to be stalled, as big ones are just looking how to push more ads, instead of more polygons This is just nonsense. Unreal 5 shipped with Nanite and Lumen for 'more polygons', and have been…

Can you make a 3D isometric perspective game easily in Unreal? Can you do it in Unity?

Do you have to fight against the scene graph or whatever they use high level to do that?

Re: OSS Game Engines are increasing their stars on GitHub due to Unity's missteps

#173

Post by nottorp »

maushu wrote: post #11
peremptor wrote: post #6

Im not well versed in game programming, however I have some knowledge on how to properly structure your software architecture in other domains. In regards to third party dependencies I agree with what Uncle Bob says, which is to keep them as far away from your stuff as possible. Only introduce a hard dependency if you have to. In my current project I have been doing that and I enjoy the flexibility that this gives me…

The problem is that Unity is a game engine , not a game framework . That means that any code you do will be following their architecture and using their features. The game logic gets really tight to the engine. ...unless you are Brian Bucklew https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1703163364229161236.html Note: That is not the "normal" way to use a game engine.

I'm pretty sure when Unity was new all games kinda looked the same. And killed my battery no matter how lightweight they seemed.

How is it today? I'm not sure what uses it and what doesn't any more. That's a good thing, i guess.

Re: OSS Game Engines are increasing their stars on GitHub due to Unity's missteps

#174

Post by Macha »

pjmlp wrote: post #120
Macha wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A sample of apps larger than 70mb on my android device: - The built in Contacts app - Degiro (investment management) - Doubletwist (music player) - Sony Headphones Some apps above 150mb: - Element (chat) - Kindle reader - Pocket Casts (podcast player) I don't have too many games installed but layton and the curious village, a point and click DS port, is 700mb (10x larger than on its original platform of the DS). I gu…

Yet, it is a common subject on Apple and Google conferences regarding mobile best practices. Not everyone is living in the first world with flagship devices, unless you mean only those are entitled to play games.

> Not everyone is living in the first world with flagship devices, unless you mean only those are entitled to play games.

Right, but unity and unreal performance were possible to make adequate on my HTC One M7 a decade ago, a device so old that you can't publish apps compatible with it to the play store any more because of the minimum target SDK version rules.

Re: OSS Game Engines are increasing their stars on GitHub due to Unity's missteps

#176

Post by Macha »

bigfishrunning wrote: post #153
JohnFen wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The numbers didn’t add up. They had to change something. This seems likely, but from what I've been hearing from game devs, the issue isn't the increased fees so much as the fact that they retroactively changed licensing. That they did this (again, after promising not to the last time) indicates that regardless of what the fees actually are, you'd be a fool to enter into a business relationship with them.

> (again, after promising not to the last time) The lesson to be learned here is to never trust a "promise". Enter contracts that one party can't change on a whim. If a product you're using to run a business can pull the rug out like this, maybe move your business to one that can't.

Unity did have such a clause in their contract until 2019 when they removed it in a click through contract on an update.

So the moral here is "don't patch your software without having a lawyer diff the TOS?" I don't think that's the world we want to live in. I don't think that leaves consuming proprietary software as a feasible option in today's fast moving security landacape. It's fair to call out bad actors who muddy the water to make the world that way.

Re: OSS Game Engines are increasing their stars on GitHub due to Unity's missteps

#177

Post by asddubs »

chess_horse_L wrote: post #53

Yeah, and everyone will be back to Unity in a month. People need to make a living, y'know. They need to make games/assets NOW, not in 3 years once those engines are ready. For example, I see my Twitter timeline full of people slowly realizing that Godot is not Unity 2, and complaining about the UX, GDScript, C# and performance problems. So, they either have to live on that hill and contribute to Godot (And sometimes…

even if 90% of developers giving godot a shot will go back to unity, this will be a very good thing for godot

Re: OSS Game Engines are increasing their stars on GitHub due to Unity's missteps

#178

Post by chaostheory »

JohnFen wrote: post #154
chaostheory wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also I don't see how C# is not "approachable C# is powerful and performant. I wouldn’t call it approachable though unless your background is Java or C++ It suffers from the same problem as Java: verbosity with endless choices for syntax. Why is this a problem? The “paradox of choice” is debilitating for most people. Also, since there’s no universal consensus over style, you’re going to inevitably have convention wa…

> you’re going to inevitably have convention wars. Only if you choose to. Most developers use whatever convention they personally prefer when working on their own code. When you're working on other people's code, you use whatever convention was already in use. If you're working for someone else, you follow the convention of your employer. Simples. No fighting necessary.

Yeah, that’s true in an ideal world. Unfortunately, we don’t live in one.

Re: OSS Game Engines are increasing their stars on GitHub due to Unity's missteps

#179

Post by ye-olde-sysrq »

teamonkey wrote: post #113
gmerc wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Valve delivers massive value equivalent to entire departments in a publisher through their steamworks system. Distribution, Analytics, Multiplayer, Anticheat, Publishing Services, Anti Piracy, Storefront, Sales, Mods, Custom Content Integrations, Localisation, and most importantly discovery (things you pay for dearly outside on mobile). They never had need to convince developers that the fee is worth it and they neve…

I just find it really strange to think of Valve's 30% cut to be value, when its main advantage is being an oligopoly, but Unity's 4% cut to be rent-seeking, when it's the foundation and toolset for the software being made.

I think the best argument you could make to say steam is a monopoly is to say that their plan is roughly:

1. Make a platform gamers love to use so much that they will still use it even if other stores are literally giving the games away for free

2. Build a brand that your target audience recognizes worldwide and trusts with their entire game collection.

3. "Exploit" the fact that your audience loves your product and brand so fanatically that you can charge the same amount on an open platform (PC/windows/linux) that other app stores need walled gardens (apple/android - literal lockin and literal near-monopolies/duopoly) to be able to charge.

I really struggle to find a way to frame Valve as the bad guy here. It's PC. There's literally nothing stopping you from just installing as many app stores / launcher platforms as you want. And it's not all-or-nothing - people DO use multiple launchers/stores. What gamer doesn't begrudgingly have Origin and at least one of EGS or the Blizzard/battlenet launcher installed alongside steam? And yet people still use steam, and spend the most money there by far.

Re: OSS Game Engines are increasing their stars on GitHub due to Unity's missteps

#180

Post by danaris »

master-lincoln wrote: post #160
danaris wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Murder? No, they can't do that! That's illegal!"

Except that here they will not do something to you like a murderer. They might ask you to pay money. But if you refuse I believe they will at most sue you for the money and then lose if it was illegal.

Can you afford to pay the legal fees to prove that it's illegal, even as Unity continues to drag out the fight with procedural motions, appeals, etc?

Can you afford to bet on winning?

It really shouldn't be this way, and I hope that we will see a time when "that's illegal" means that a company like Unity wouldn't even consider doing it. But as things stand, something like this is often only illegal in practice when it's done by people without the resources to fight lengthy legal battles.

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