Live data from Hacker News

Has Google Translate been fixed yet?

isgooglefixed.tw

171–180 of 229 posts

Re: Has Google Translate been fixed yet?

#171
post #139

This is an interesting issue. Simplified and Traditional are different (but closely related) writing systems that can be used to express the exact same text. They are not different linguistic variants of Chinese. It looks like regardless of which writing system you choose, Google still translates into the most widely used variant of Chinese: Standard Chinese, as spoken on the mainland. It just writes the result using…

If, as you are claiming, the Taiwanese don't have their own Taiwanese Mandarin, with their language being just the same as the Mandarin used in China, how can it be that at the same time they also don't get to have a say in what constitutes the "standard" of that "common" language they share with the "mainland?" Also, there is no reason for constantly calling it "Mainland China" where you could just as well call it "…

> If, as you are claiming, the Taiwanese don't have their own Taiwanese Mandarin, with their language being just the same as the Mandarin used in China

This is like saying the Canadians and the Americans each have their own unique language. They speak the same language, with small dialectal differences, and small differences in official standards (semi-official, in the case of the US). The internal differences in Mandarin as spoken in different regions of China are far larger than the differences between the ROC and PRC standards.

In the case of the PRC and ROC (now commonly known as "Taiwan"), the PRC standard is derived from the ROC standard, so emphasizing the differences is somewhat strange. They're very closely related to one another.

> Also, there is no reason for constantly calling it "Mainland China" where you could just as well call it "China," unless it is to further a political agenda.

"Mainland China" and "China" are not synonymous. Mainland China comprises the provinces of the mainland and Hainan. However you define China, at a minimum, it also contains Hong Kong and Macau, which are not part of "Mainland China." Hong Kong notably uses traditional characters, and it has slightly different standards than Taiwan.

> If Google is run as a business, not a political entity, their linguistic choices should reflect the language actually being used in any given market, and not be based on purported "standards" promulgated elsewhere.

Google's Chinese translations are so utterly terrible that this entire discussion is almost moot. I seriously doubt that Google is trying very hard to adhere to any particular standard version of Chinese. If you want decent Chinese English translations, use DeepL.

Re: Has Google Translate been fixed yet?

#172
post #163
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speech to text is very impractical and error-prone.

Talking to a Chinese-speaking coworker, my understanding had been that speech to text was very popular in China, especially on phones?

Yes it is.

Tangent: Anthropic's CEO worked on Mandarin speech recognition at Baidu: https://arxiv.org/abs/1512.02595

Re: Has Google Translate been fixed yet?

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a Western who has lived in Taipei for almost three years. I use Google Translate every day of my life. It's helped me book restaurant reservations and talk to my doctor. I also grew up in Canada, have British parents, and lived in the USA for seven years, so I'm used to switching from "Traditional English" to "Simplified English" too ;-) I mean, ya, sometimes Google Translate uses Mainland China words (e.g., I ju…

I mean it’s on a par with using simplified Chinese here. People understand what you mean, but you get disapproving looks. A foreigner using G translate would probably be fine, though :)

As a 外国人, I get a lot of good will for even a weak attempt at simplified.

Re: Has Google Translate been fixed yet?

#174
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you point to a specific instance of a proposed ISO standard that was shot down by committee? Because otherwise the default explanation for why there's no ISO standard for Cantonese romanization is the same as why there's no ISO standard for romanizing Burmese, or Malaysian Jawi etc. There's little demand internationally for such a standard. And if the Hong Kong government's standard, or the Guangdong government's…

Myanmar, while spoken by fewer people than Yue, benefits from an official standard for romanization from its own government (not ISO), and Jawi is a dialect of a language spoken by fewer than a thousand people total. When saying “little demand internationally”, could you clarify what international demand was there for a standard for romanizing Mandarin and why that is somehow not applicable to Yue?

> Myanmar, while spoken by fewer people than Yue, benefits from an official standard for romanization from its own government (not ISO)

Said standard getting ignored by most Burmese people in favor of ad-hoc romanizations, similar to Cantonese speakers in Hong Kong and Guangdong mostly ignoring various standards published by their respective governments.

> Jawi is a dialect of a language spoken by fewer than a thousand people total.

Malaysian Jawi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jawi_script is not a dialect, but an Arabic-derived writing system for Malay. While not all Malay speakers use it, it's certainly more than a few thousand.

> what international demand was there for a standard for romanizing Mandarin and why that is somehow not applicable to Yue?

Mandarin is an official language of the UN, whereas Yue isn't.

Re: Has Google Translate been fixed yet?

#175
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Mainland" means "continental" in general; the other context it comes up in is "mainland Europe". The term is ... not completely uncontentious in its own right, but mostly on the "assumes the other China is another China" dimension.

I'm not sure what the last part means about the other China being another China, but continental sounds like a good alternative actually. No concept of main versus spare/alternate/lesser, just not an island

Yes, but the island of Hainan is considered part of "Mainland China," while the mainland areas of Hong Kong and Macau are not, so in this context it's a purely political term, trying to shape reality as opposed to just describing it.

Re: Has Google Translate been fixed yet?

#176
post #67
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they could easily be using a larger dataset on line? Which goes two ways: maybe this line of reasoning doesn't mean anything; or well yes exactly, but why so small online when they have all this space and also offer Bard.

They don't charge anywhere near enough to do that, I'd imagine; and likely couldn't at the scale they operate at (I mean, they are even embedded into many apps to help instantly translate banal things like comments). Imagine trying to translate a long news article with a sequence of max-length LLM inferences.

Yeah I'm not actually suggesting it run through Bard/a LLM, I just mean surely small dataset size is a design requirement for space constrained devices' offline translation, it doesn't necessarily mean they use the same datasets online, and if they do.. why, because it seems to be enough?

(It's a bit confusing to talk about because surely it is just an older version of the same sort of thing, it's a less large language model right? I just think it could/should/would be a bit larger in the online hosted version.)

Re: Has Google Translate been fixed yet?

#177
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to write Chinese text on a computer - you still have to use Latin alphabet, because it's not possible to put thousands of characters on a keyboard. So a different writing system for Chinese has already been developed. Some other languages also have more than one writing system. (Serbian and Azeri). When mobile phones became accessible to the general public then many people used Latin alphabet to write in…

Eh, you can find at least three (Traditional) Chinese input methods on any given modern system, and Pinyin is only one of them. Cangjie and Bopomofo require no understanding to Latin alphabets. Not to mention there are other less used methods such as Boshiamy.

As I understand - Pinyin is still the most popular one. It also is compatible with all standard Latin keyboards and doesn't require touchscreens or microphones. So pretty much all educated Chinese people are familiar with the Latin alphabet. But for most people outside China - the Chinese alphabet looks like gibberish.

Re: Has Google Translate been fixed yet?

#178
post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment would be true if American and British English were linguistically classified as distinct, mutually unintelligible languages (beyond amusing accent jokes). A Mandarin speaker in Taiwan has a different accent and slightly different vocabulary than Mandarin speaker in Beijing, but neither of them would be able to converse with a Yue speaker any more than a Russian speaker would be able to converse with a Po…

It’s pretty clear Google Translate only outputs Madarin in Simplified and Traditional Chinese. Find a person from either side of the strait, as long as they’re literate and have been taught some version of Madarin, they should understand either version of at least 90% of phrases on the linked page (do a verbatim T2C/C2T first if they have trouble recognizing some characters), only one version may be slightly weird. A…

First, not every Yue speaker speaks Mandarin.

Second, the fact that they also speak Mandarin (because it was a mandatory lesson at school or they were otherwise forced by circumstances to learn it) does not mean there should be no support in Translate for their native language, which incidentally dwarfs many languages that Translate does support in number of speakers.

If you think that’s viable logic, you should try applying it to other languages with predominantly multi-language speakers. Start with Irish (98% of people in Ireland speak English, after all) and move on to Catalan, see where that gets you.

Re: Has Google Translate been fixed yet?

#179
post #163
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speech to text is very impractical and error-prone.

Talking to a Chinese-speaking coworker, my understanding had been that speech to text was very popular in China, especially on phones?

OK, but it doesn't work in situations where you don't want others to hear what you type. And in places with lots of noise.

Re: Has Google Translate been fixed yet?

#180
post #96
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many words did you memorize in English? All it's inconsistencies like butcher were the pronunciation isn't recognizable from the spelling. Is it read or read? I doubt you can simply map the pronunciation of the chinese spoken languages to the latin alphabet. And that's only the words, you also need grammar and different languages have tenses that don't even exist in other languages. Just compare Hebrew to English…

But memorizing words is relatively easy. Adding to that the drawing is not. I am not saying it is impossible, it is not obviously. My mother language is Spanish, so I also have 26 letters.

>林 (lín): This character means “forest” or “woods” and is composed of two 木 (mù) characters side by side. It represents a small forest or a group of trees. 森 (sēn): This character also means “forest” but represents a larger, denser forest than 林 (lín). It is composed of three 木 (mù) characters arranged in a triangle.

That's more logic between the symbols of tree, wood and forrest than between the same english words, and it even looks like some kind of tree.

Spanish has lots of those accent marks, so it's more than 26 letters, it's also accent marks.

Post reply on HN