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Banks hit with millions in fines for using Signal and WhatsApp

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Re: Banks hit with millions in fines for using Signal and WhatsApp

#171

Post by tootie »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #5

Ha, in Europe WhatsApp is even used by doctors and teachers to discuss patient/student matters, and even some government offices use it. It's wild how entrenched it is in every aspects of society, from social to business. Goes to show you how far good UX, simplicity and ease of use can take you.

I'm sure it's mostly used for convenience rather than anything nefarious. Most of my doctors are in a medical group that uses an app with built in messaging. It's at least an attempt to allow texting that's compliant.

Re: Banks hit with millions in fines for using Signal and WhatsApp

#172

Post by tootie »

donatj wrote: post #158

The whole record keeping requirement for written correspondence generally seems completely unreasonable. Presumably telephone calls, zoom calls and in person meetings aren't recorded? Why should that be different if it's written?

I once mentioned "slack" on a messaging platform at an investment bank and the compliance team came after me pretty quickly.

Re: Banks hit with millions in fines for using Signal and WhatsApp

#173

Post by pasc1878 »

ahtihn wrote: post #155
Invictus0 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it isn't, the regulation is extremely important and helps keep the financial system following the law. The stakes are extremely high and monitoring records is the bare minimum we should be doing to protect ourselves from criminal financial actors. Every rule is written in blood. We recently saw guys fixing the LIBOR for a tray of leftover sushi. Thankfully we have records of that.

> Every rule is written in blood. Not really. This rule was written when the only form of written communication was paper mail and office memos. It wasn't written with instant messaging in mind.

True but the rules for bank traders do cover this. The rules cover all traders.

In the 90s we had an IT contracter complaining the bank told him not to use a messaging app as the bank could not read it. The issue is the bank is at risk if communications were not recorded. At the time phones were already all recorded.

Re: Banks hit with millions in fines for using Signal and WhatsApp

#174

Post by pasc1878 »

Traubenfuchs wrote: post #90

What‘s the solution for the banks here? Officially prohibiting those messenger apps but off-the-record recommending them on private phones to dodge regulators?

No the traders would have to use approved messing apps. The banks don"t like not knowing as it is easiest to defraud the company you are working for.

Re: Banks hit with millions in fines for using Signal and WhatsApp

#175

Post by pasc1878 »

qwerty456127 wrote: post #15

No person on Earth (except a very reasonably suspected terrorist perhaps, because he could use that for an attack trigger) should be ever denied privacy. What if I worked at a bank and had to text something urgent to my dear? I would find it asolutely unacceptable for anybody to ever read that, no matter how innocent and banal our conversatioun would be. To me that would be equivalent to tapping into my brain and eav…

Your phone calls would be recorded. SO what is the difference.

Re: Banks hit with millions in fines for using Signal and WhatsApp

#176

Post by psychlops »

kolbe wrote: post #129

All the government needs to do to get HN on board with criminalizing encrypted communications is to implicate a bank. Bear in-mind, the SEC didn't find any actual criminal activity here. The banks just failed to retain the conversations that took place by their employees via encrypted channels (a necessary feature of encrypted communication).

It's up to the reader to speculate how much criminal activity took place in the conversations they failed to retain. I, for one, am certain it was all just brokers gabbing about American Idol.

Re: Banks hit with millions in fines for using Signal and WhatsApp

#177

Post by JumpCrisscross »

pasc1878 wrote: post #167
loeg wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The weird step for me is the expansion of regulatory authority from published memos, to all written communication like texts and chats. I get it and don't really object to the end result, but it seems like the law should be updated to match what society desires to be regulated, rather than just relying on a generous interpretation by regulators.

The law does not need extending. It is that for bank traders ALL communications must be kept.

> for bank traders ALL communications must be kept

One, not every securities professional trades at a bank. Two, this is not true for any of them. Broadly speaking, work-related written communications must be logged. But there is nuance and exception to that.

Re: Banks hit with millions in fines for using Signal and WhatsApp

#178

Post by tqi »

kolbe wrote: post #134
HPsquared wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intent is harder to prove.

What do you think we should assume about your communications on encrypted channels? This entire thing is yet another federal effort to criminalize encrypted communications, and it even works on the HN crowd. All they have to say is "big banks bad" and people here go from freedom fighters to government pawns.

That's not what is happening here.

Re: Banks hit with millions in fines for using Signal and WhatsApp

#179

Post by calderwoodra »

kolbe wrote: post #120
psychphysic wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could have used "Banks fined millions evading regulation with Signal & WhatsApp" News headlines have rules they use to make for shorter sentences. They'd probably write "Banks fined millions, delete records, use E2E apps"

Here's a link to the actual press release: https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2023-149 It makes no mention of evading regulation. This fine is for a failure to retain written communications. Which is impossible to do for some of these communications channels.

Signal and WhatsApp messages are trivial to retain - my company Hadrius does exactly this.
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