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Why San Francisco Is a Homeless Mecca

wsj.com

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Re: Why San Francisco Is a Homeless Mecca

#171

Post by aogaili »

evancox100 wrote: post #135
aogaili wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Killing their dog and giving them a temporary bed is stupid and cruel solution. And stupid cruel people with power make others suffer and some of them will end up homeless. The homeless needs a lot of nurturing to get back on their feet.

I am anti-cruelty and suffering, but it is not always cruel to force someone to do something they don't want to do, and it is not always kind to give them what they want. If the choice is between them getting back on their feet but having to put the dog up for adoption (which is what I meant, not executing the dog on the spot), vs being stuck indefinitely homeless, I know which one I'm picking. And again, I don't thi…

I understand your argument. It is a tough situation to get out from, between a cycle of mental illness, isolation, a tough climb out.

Life can be very cruel. And when everyone and everything failed that man, and nothing left for him but that dog, he is then faced with a choice of between leaving the dog to try to fit again in a world that hurt him. No wonder many are stuck in this situation.

Re: Why San Francisco Is a Homeless Mecca

#172

Post by otikik »

buzzert wrote: post #157
otikik wrote: post #104

This is an opinion piece, not an article. Still, citing some sources would have helped. > Many homeless prefer to live on the streets where they can freely use drugs Says who? When I was there what I saw was (majorly) people with untreated mental health issues. > San Francisco’s homeless epidemic is a result in large part of the familiar problems of drug addiction and mental illness. Again, according to whom? If half…

> That's because putting someone in jail for stealing less than $950 worth of goods is bonkers. I really can't believe you still think that way. Have you been to a Walgreens/CVS in the city lately? Where everything's locked up, and security guards are shooting people on their own now? And you think it was "bonkers" before all of that started happening, wow.

If punishment is the only way to solve this, why be so timid? Cut their hands off.

Re: Why San Francisco Is a Homeless Mecca

#173

Post by goodpoint »

anononaut wrote: post #98
goodpoint wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yay for even higher inequality!

A serfdom supported by taxation (theft) isn't exactly the definition of equality. We should be aiming for individual liberty. Equality is a false god.

This kind of comments belong to 4chan, not to HN.

Re: Why San Francisco Is a Homeless Mecca

#174

Post by RC_ITR »

zdragnar wrote: post #161
RC_ITR wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest propaganda win of the century has been the following: In a country with complete freedom of movement (and relatively cheap long-distance transportation), the mainstream has been convinced that homelessness is only caused by the communities where those people live. It's the Federal government's historical role to serves as a social safety net, not mid-sized cities with 'live outside year round' weather. Li…

> Federal government's historical role to serves as a social safety net This is not true. Medicare, section 8 housing and social security are (relatively) new inventions, and Medicaid is run by individual states, with some funding from the federal government. By volume, most social programs are either state or county run, from job training to mental health and food assistance and so on. As for what SF can do, it can…

> Medicare, section 8 housing and social security are (relatively) new inventions

I guess we just have different time horizons of what counts are historical, since Medicare is ~3x my age.

Re: Why San Francisco Is a Homeless Mecca

#175

Post by [deleted] »

6D794163636F756 wrote: post #155
scarmig wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that there are shelter beds available: many are empty. The fact that if every single homeless person decided to take a bed there wouldn't be enough is irrelevant, because they don't want to. If N is the number of beds needed to house absolutely every homeless person, going from N-1 to N wouldn't result in a single additional homeless person in a bed, because right now there are empty beds available that…

It is relevant because taking a bed means giving up means of survival without anything to replace it. You also seem to be forgetting that these are people with agency and not just numbers on a spreadsheet so yes, people will argue that they deserve the respect needed to improve their own conditions.

[deleted]

Re: Why San Francisco Is a Homeless Mecca

#176

Post by MichaelZuo »

tedivm wrote: post #38
slifin wrote: post #5

600k per year per person? With that amount of funding you may as well buy every homeless person a house

This number is horribly bias and misleading. They are using the money that goes towards all homeless programs- including programs that keep people housed- but then dividing it by the number of shelter beds, despite the fact that the vast majority of the money is not spent on shelters. It's like taking the entire school budget, dividing it by the number of first graders, and then saying that's how much we spend per st…

That's a pretty serious claim against WSJ and it's editors. Since they have a lot of credibility on HN with users and moderators, do you really think they are intentionally misleading readers?

Re: Why San Francisco Is a Homeless Mecca

#177

Post by anononaut »

goodpoint wrote: post #173
anononaut wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A serfdom supported by taxation (theft) isn't exactly the definition of equality. We should be aiming for individual liberty. Equality is a false god.

This kind of comments belong to 4chan, not to HN.

Enjoy your Plato's cave then.

Re: Why San Francisco Is a Homeless Mecca

#178

Post by RC_ITR »

AlbertCory wrote: post #134
RC_ITR wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not implying the strawman hypothetical you proposed. I think the confusion might be that the strawman doesn't even follow logic, TBH. Were did the Sacramento Democrats comment come in? I simply stated that the article highlighted federal decisions and blamed other governments for the consequences of those decisions. In that set of circumstances, Sacramento Democrats are equal to SF progressives, as they are both…

You're "simply" trying to spread blame around. That's all you're simply doing. SF has all the resources they need. They just need to use them. "plagued every society ever" -- no, it hasn't, not to anywhere near the scale of SF. Even large cities within the jurisdiction of the 9th Circuit, like San Diego, Fresno, Spokane. San Jose.

The injunction applies specifically to SF as it relates to a specific court case. Is that not clear to you?

>SF has all the resources they need. They just need to use them.

I guarantee to you the Federal government has more/better. But hey, let's play the game. What exactly does SF need to do? Step by step.

Re: Why San Francisco Is a Homeless Mecca

#179

Post by AlbertCory »

RC_ITR wrote: post #178
AlbertCory wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're "simply" trying to spread blame around. That's all you're simply doing. SF has all the resources they need. They just need to use them. "plagued every society ever" -- no, it hasn't, not to anywhere near the scale of SF. Even large cities within the jurisdiction of the 9th Circuit, like San Diego, Fresno, Spokane. San Jose.

The injunction applies specifically to SF as it relates to a specific court case. Is that not clear to you? >SF has all the resources they need. They just need to use them. I guarantee to you the Federal government has more/better. But hey, let's play the game. What exactly does SF need to do? Step by step.

Oh, I see, you want me to put some specifics out there, so you can nitpick them?

I guarantee to you that SF has possibly the worst problem of any city, except for some other West Coast cities. So why don't you explain why cities with equivalently good weather don't suffer nearly as much? Just luck?

Re: Why San Francisco Is a Homeless Mecca

#180

Post by buzzert »

hypeit wrote: post #166
buzzert wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine I take half of your income, and I tell you that it's supposed to go towards helping the poor. Instead, the poor become poorer, all city services get worse, and nobody really seems to be getting helped. You are then expected to take even more of your income AND now time as well trying to solve this issue for which there are hundreds (thousands?) of city/state employees who are supposed to be doing this as thei…

Again, I have no idea why you're talking about taxes. Most wealthy people only pay capital gains tax which is hardly onerous. If you have billions of dollars and you have some sort of problem, it's absolutely within your means to do something about it (other than whine on twitter).

I'm talking about taxes because I don't think money is the problem. If money was the problem, we should be able to raise taxes to meet the needs of, say, the public school system. The problem is, the additional amount of taxes to be collected needs to be an absolute/agreed upon value, not just "more".
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