ESG makes Larry Fink and the rest of the globalist cabal happy. It's much like a magician's sleight of hand, pay attention to our score and ignore what we're really doing.
Companies with good ESG scores pollute as much as low-rated rivals
171–180 of 187 posts
Re: Companies with good ESG scores pollute as much as low-rated rivals
#172ESG is tricky to talk about thanks to the politization of it. I work on some projects that involve ESG data and I have some thoughts. First there's LOTS of factors. If you bunch them all up into one number, it becomes meaningless as the article describes. I would think wiser minds would use this data to make investment decisions based on some specific risk, like hedging against some environmental disaster which may a…
Goodhart's Law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart%27s_law "When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure" Any ESG system that uses a calculated number composed of many areas will quickly fall prey to Goodhart's Law. With an E, an S and a G to work on, the areas for change are numerous enough that Goodhart's Law holds even in a non-cynical world. When an edict that "We need to increase our X sco…
Obviously KPIs should be (and probably are) chosen specifically with this effect in mind.
Re: Companies with good ESG scores pollute as much as low-rated rivals
#173Earlier quoted context omitted.
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I agree, I see "anti-trans" and accusations of being "transphobic" typically used as a silencing tactic, to stymie and derail discussion. But these issues really do need to be discussed, as there is real-world harm arising from these medical interventions, and from the non-consensual redrawing of the boundaries around single-sex spaces. I think you're spot on with your comparison to attitudes towards FGM, it really d…
I wish you luck in convincing those around you to see sanity. It's difficult but better than the alternative.
Re: Companies with good ESG scores pollute as much as low-rated rivals
#174Earlier quoted context omitted.
So I did look at the report you linked. It's very high level and sparse .. even then the only references to emissions reductions (including carbon) were pretty much: "company must adhere to laws and regulations and must take into account the future emissions reductions that are governmental targets" (paraphrasing).' I don't see how this is different from what I said. It does not rate how environmentally friendly the…
Page 5, Exhibit 2 is PwC's ESG framework. It includes carbon emissions. The criteria used by each ESG ratings agency differs. The major agencies are MSCI, Sustainalytics, Bloomberg, FTSE Russell, ISS Ratings and Rankings, CDP Climate, Water and Forest Scores, S&P Global ESG Score, and Moody’s ESG Solutions Group. All of them include carbon emissions in their Environmental score. For example, this is the methodology u…
On your page:
MSCI ESG Ratings aim to measure a company’s resilience to long-term, financially relevant ESG risks.
- Of the negative externalities that companies in an industry generate, which issues may turn into unanticipated costs for companies in the medium to long term?
- Conversely, which ESG issues affecting an industry may turn into opportunities for companies in the medium to long term?
Re: Companies with good ESG scores pollute as much as low-rated rivals
#175Earlier quoted context omitted.
I am sorry, I was not trying to post flamebait. I have provided more context with sources and an explanation of what I was talking about in questioning responses further down in the thread. I would include them in the parent comment if I was still able to edit it. I really don’t feel like it was a harmful comment, it has net upvotes, the majority here seem to agree with the sentiment.
Your comment pointed directly to race war. That's practically the biggest flamebait there is—especially when you use high-indignation, low-information phrases like "how much you discriminate against $group". It's important to understand the concept of "generic tangent" - when a thread moves away from the specifics of a given story toward more familiar/bigger/hotter/divisive/sensational things, the discussion is guara…
Okay, I will be more substantive and try to leave out indignation in the future. I think I need to spend less time on the internet.
Re: Companies with good ESG scores pollute as much as low-rated rivals
#176Not really news is it? From two years ago: https://www.bloomberg.com/professional/blog/bp-esg-outlook-s... > BP’s ESG performance and outlook are bolstered by an ambitious net-zero emissions target from its operated upstream production by 2050, complemented by a tenfold surge in green spending, 50 gigawatts of renewable-power generation by 2030 and a 40% decline in oil and gas volume. Ecological metrics are favorable…
> investor-friendly governance structure This point is actually reasonable - a poorly governed company is a risk. Like if a single, unreadonable owner is prone to throwing hissy fits, ridking money in poorly thoigh out schemes and firing people because he woke up on the wrong side of the bed. Then thats a riskier investment.
You're missing the forest for the trees.
Re: Companies with good ESG scores pollute as much as low-rated rivals
#177Earlier quoted context omitted.
> > The political backlash against ESG scores is so misplaced. Rating agencies should rate the financial risk of stuff (mostly bonds they should try and do it well given that whole mess they created in 08) They should not be involved in politics. When a rating agency goes beyond number crunching and they start looking at other stuff they are already out of their role. When they start looking at the number of women on…
> They should not be involved in politics. "Should we bail out the banks" was politics. BP has a massive oil spill, how much will they be fined, are they going to be fined more because they are a British and not American company? How much will fcrashes of Boeing Max cost Boeing? Imagine these crashing planes were from a Chinese company, what would the consequences for the company be ? The big economic projections are…
Maybe, but they are actively encouraging ESG with their lingo in press conferences and reports as opposed to being a neutral observer which solely coldly evaluates the risk of governments ganging up on a company
Re: Companies with good ESG scores pollute as much as low-rated rivals
#178Earlier quoted context omitted.
> They should not be involved in politics. "Should we bail out the banks" was politics. BP has a massive oil spill, how much will they be fined, are they going to be fined more because they are a British and not American company? How much will fcrashes of Boeing Max cost Boeing? Imagine these crashing planes were from a Chinese company, what would the consequences for the company be ? The big economic projections are…
Maybe, but they are actively encouraging ESG with their lingo in press conferences and reports as opposed to being a neutral observer which solely coldly evaluates the risk of governments ganging up on a company
For the same reason McDonalds encourages you to eat more burgers and Private prisons encourage you to commit crime
Re: Companies with good ESG scores pollute as much as low-rated rivals
#179Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your comment pointed directly to race war. That's practically the biggest flamebait there is—especially when you use high-indignation, low-information phrases like "how much you discriminate against $group". It's important to understand the concept of "generic tangent" - when a thread moves away from the specifics of a given story toward more familiar/bigger/hotter/divisive/sensational things, the discussion is guara…
Okay, I will be more substantive and try to leave out indignation in the future. I think I need to spend less time on the internet.
Appreciated!
Re: Companies with good ESG scores pollute as much as low-rated rivals
#180Earlier quoted context omitted.
I hate hate hate how pollution has been reduced to co2 and nothing else. Don't have to worry about global warming if contaminated water and soil kill us all first.
It's more that the other kinds of pollution are local and most of the world will be quick to fine you or throw you in jail if you start to pollute too much of them.
Hahahahahahaha 3M profitable poison printer go brrrr