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Reasons Not to Be a Manager (2019)

charity.wtf

171–180 of 192 posts

Re: Reasons Not to Be a Manager (2019)

#171
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The chance of 5 people deciding to leave all at once is exponentially lower than a chance of 1 person. And the chance of 5 random people producing something compared to the 1 you know is a huge contributor is exponentially lower too. > Business likes predictability. That's great. Then they should actually stick with it i.e. reward the 1 that's been contributing rather than gamble on something that might not work. I…

>And the chance of 5 random people producing something compared to the 1 you know is a huge contributor is exponentially lower too. When a customer presses a button to book a taxi ride, they don't care whether the underlying database query takes O(log N) or O(N^2). As long as the price is good and they get a response within 3-5 seconds, they're cool. This works for the absolute majority of real-world projects. Techni…

> As long as the price is good and they get a response within 3-5 seconds, they're cool.

You're so amazing aren't you. You even know precisely what the customer wants. Are you saying that if I offered a service with a 2 second response they're not going to take it? Nah they only want 3-5 seconds!?

> Technical excellence has very little impact on the revenue, compared to other factors (product/market fit), so people making business decisions don't care about it.

If you don't care about it how do you know it doesn't impact? If you don't care you don't know the details. So problem is, maybe if you cared it'd make a difference?

Also what does this have to do with technical excellence or whatever you're referring to? The whole point was the 1 person that could do a job better than potentially 5. It is about delivering business value.

> Business is always a gamble.

And? It was the poster above that said business preferred predictability and I responded to that. You're now taking it out of context and trying to derive other meaning from it.

So is it predictability or a gamble?

> It's like you are trying to navigate a ship in a storm, and the mechanic keeps telling you how he can shove coal 5x faster than others and hence needs to be paid more. Except, you never need it that fast, and need to have 2 onboard anyway, in case one gets sick.

Again we're back to assumptions. How do you know this mechanic that shoves 5x faster will get sick? Maybe they never get sick? So it'll be better than hiring 2 that might get sick. Again, that was the original argument. If you change it - then whatever. You might as well say those 2 you have onboard ALWAYS get sick so I still prefer the 1 that can shove coal faster.

Re: Reasons Not to Be a Manager (2019)

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's BY FAR the most common outworking. Most people won't be lucky enough to find a job that doesn't work that way.

Can you cite where you know this from?

This is pervasive across US corporate culture and present in 4/4 different sectors I have been employed.

Based off your statement in another thread "I've never really been to the US, other than a couple of brief work trips" - I can understand your view, but it is indeed the most common paradigm. Will happily review your sources that refute my experience.

Re: Reasons Not to Be a Manager (2019)

#173

15) Meetings. I look at my director and senior directors schedule in Outlook. It is 6 to 10 hours of meetings per day. They often start at 6am and might go until midnight because the company is worldwide. Meetings with people in India, China, Singapore, Israel, Europe, east and west coast US. I get annoyed if I have more than 2 hours of a meetings a day. I get really annoyed when they interfere with my personal life…

Those managers sound like pushovers.

Re: Reasons Not to Be a Manager (2019)

#174
post #66

I am sick and tired of pressure to get into management once you get older and lack of other opportunities to be rewarded. If I can do job of 5 other people, I can be compensated like two others and the company is still ahead. Or if that's just my arrogance talking, there can be an objective system to measure work accomplished and set rewards accordingly. Instead all of my questions about advancement are met with dema…

Remember that all the people up the chain deciding compensation are managers. It's natural that they would perceive the management track as more important, because they're on it.

For what is worth, I'm a fairly senior manager (a few hundred engineers) and I firmly believe and vocally point out the opposite. I'm sure the kind of self dealing you describe is not unheard of, but it's also pretty cynical to assume that as a default. If the culture in your work place has gone that far down the drain for real, maybe take some time to look for a new gig or reality check it with a manager you trust?

Re: Reasons Not to Be a Manager (2019)

#175
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My observation has been that unless you are amazingly charismatic or a force of nature, as an engineering manager much of your value is in your ability to understand your specific companies unspoken intricacies such as: * who the different personalities are within the specific organization in order to get things done and who's opinion you need to take into account and who you can safely ignore * who you can escalate…

very accurate. I would humbly add: * handling the sheer amount of times that somebody says something is going to happen and then the complete opposite happens, because they lied/they didn't have information/they were projecting their desire/they are out of touch with reality

I hate this because it’s true and i have seen this multiple times.

Re: Reasons Not to Be a Manager (2019)

#176
post #158
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember that all the people up the chain deciding compensation are managers. It's natural that they would perceive the management track as more important, because they're on it.

If management didn't pay well, qualified people simply wouldn't do it or you'd be limited to people who felt emotionally compensated by getting more power over other people (which is already bad enough).

Some of us enjoy helping other people. First bit of advice I give to new or would-be managers is to learn indirect gratification. Most common failure mode for new engineering managers IMO is the struggle to feel productive given that impact is achieved chiefly indirectly.

Re: Reasons Not to Be a Manager (2019)

#177
post #151

It’s possible that I’m misreading sarcasm or something. But point 6, “engineers can be little shits”, about how asking if the person in charge of you understands the work going on is mildly offensive for the obvious reasons, and extremely offensive for how fucking stupid it is. Knowing how to do something is not an absurd ask of being responsible for that thing being done. I only ever got up to 3 dozen-ish reports as…

That's just not reality. Many EMs are not necessarily proficient or even knowledgeable in the stack. It depends on the company. EM doesn't mean the same thing everywhere. Last week I applied to an EM role that was 100% people management where my tech experience did not matter much. I also applied to one that was still a majority technical/architecture design, that some would consider a 'tech lead' or something like t…

I’ve known lots of people who aren’t technical to the level of an engineer but still crazy smart and high-value in teams. They’re usually called project managers.

Calling them engineering managers and acting like it’s good to have EMs who can’t code is an anti-pattern. Just call them PMs and let them do all the high value stuff they do.

Re: Reasons Not to Be a Manager (2019)

#178
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdata, but I've found it much easier to replace managers compared with engineers. Measured qualitatively in terms of 6 months performance

The single fastest hire my department did recently was for an EM position. Took something like under two weeks from opening the position to signed offer. No one had ever seen anything like it before.

Are they any good? Perhaps they knew somebody in the company already, which made it easier to get them into the role.

It also might be an easier time to hire right now.

Re: Reasons Not to Be a Manager (2019)

#179
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Working for oneself is how we're meant to work, not to be a cog in someone else's machine. It is sad that for the past ~100 years it has become the norm and we idolize entrepreneurs, as if they are mythical creatures.

I hard disagree here. That's what capitalism wants us to evolve into: individual enterprises. But no, there's nothing inherent in the universe or human nature that determines individualism as the true way of working. You don't have to go far to see people contributing to bigger causes that are not owned by someone else. Open source is a great example of this. The main reason people idolize entrepreneurs is because th…

> The main reason people idolize entrepreneurs is because they symbolize capitalism's perfect individual

That's some deep revisionism right there. Humans have worked for themselves, for no master, since before we became Homo Sapiens.

The big societal achievement of capitalism is killing any entrepreneurial spirit and telling you you need to go to a good school and then find a good employer that takes care of all of your needs.

Re: Reasons Not to Be a Manager (2019)

#180
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Working for oneself is how we're meant to work, not to be a cog in someone else's machine. It is sad that for the past ~100 years it has become the norm and we idolize entrepreneurs, as if they are mythical creatures.

Many people lack the business skills, resources, or temperament for starting their own business. So this is certainly an option but not a panacea.

Not every business has to become a billion dollar startup. A fishmonger is more of an entrepreneur than any FAANG employee.
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