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The past is not true

sive.rs

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Re: The past is not true

#171

Post by pdonis »

The article's main point is that you can change the story, but the actual example he gives is a change in the facts--the actual facts weren't what he thought they were. That is why the story changed--because he found out that the actual facts weren't as bad as the "facts" he had previously believed were true.

So it's not true that "the actual facts are a small part of the story". They are the story; you can't change the story unless you find out the facts were different. At least, not if you're being honest.

Re: The past is not true

#172

Post by munificent »

TheAceOfHearts wrote: post #127
tppiotrowski wrote: post #96

I had this moment during the Covid pandemic. I read a lot of history and I saw pictures of the Spanish influenza and was told it killed more people than WW1. Somehow I pictured the world in the late 1910s with everyone sick and in hospital but now I think it was more like Covid. People got sick and died but life went on and some people were completely unaffected. The world doesn't grind to a halt for world wars and p…

Images play a big role in how events are perceived. Whenever there's a natural disaster you tend to see all of the worst examples, even if they're not fully representative of the event. But I think it's sometimes necessary in order to get people to take these events seriously, since they can negatively affect so many people. Otherwise people might look at images where some things look normal and think that those who…

As someone who has experienced several serious floods, this is my favorite example of imagery's ability to craft a reality:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgm3_jzcNm4

Floodwaters tend to stir up a lot of dirt and mud, so the water is usually totally opaque. That makes it very hard to tell how deep it is. A lot of overhead views of flooded neighborhoods look completely disastrous, but in reality it's just a foot or two of water that will just go away once the drains can handle it.

But, sometimes, flooding really is severe and the damage is monumental. But it can be hard to distinguish those from imagery. Every picture of a flood looks biblical.

Re: The past is not true

#174

Post by munificent »

nostrebored wrote: post #121
tppiotrowski wrote: post #96

I had this moment during the Covid pandemic. I read a lot of history and I saw pictures of the Spanish influenza and was told it killed more people than WW1. Somehow I pictured the world in the late 1910s with everyone sick and in hospital but now I think it was more like Covid. People got sick and died but life went on and some people were completely unaffected. The world doesn't grind to a halt for world wars and p…

The historical context also misses a lot of what we know about the impact of malnutrition and stress on the immune system. Was the spanish flu actually that bad, or was it actually a fairly bad flu that wreaked havoc on a war-torn population? Reconciling modern information with historical events is hard. But I think it's completely necessary if we're going to make policy decisions based on history.

> Was the spanish flu actually that bad

Yes.

> was it actually a fairly bad flu that wreaked havoc on a war-torn population?

No, because those affected worst by it were young adults in relatively good health. Small children and the elderly were proportionally spared. The prevailing theory for why Spanish flu killed more healthy young adults was because it was an over-reaction of the immune system itself that was most harmful:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cytokine_storm

It is definitely the case that the war led to many young adults being moved around the world and kept in close quarters, which certainly exacerbated the spread and effect of the pandemic.

Re: The past is not true

#175

Post by doodlebugging »

bmacho wrote: post #24

Do you know the concept of space-time, block universe, B-theory of time, etc? How physics assumes that the laws of physics don't know the notion of "now"? And how physicists usually start every calculation with "let X denote the set of events", all the past and future events? Isn't that depressing? The future is true, even if we can't know it. (Even in a finite, discrete and deterministic universe, which we can compu…

We live in a set of time slices that we are able to control through the choices that we make as we slide through the deck. The past is done and locked up, carved in stone and can be recalled with high fidelity if we choose to dwell there. The future is always in your face - another decision to make, lives to influence, bullets to dodge - all presented as you color the current time slice with the events your choices allow. Choices are filters on possible paths for your future, some can be looped many times while others permanently exclude specific outcomes. As we color the time slice we can know parts of the future by understanding consequences of the choices we are making though we can't know it will all fit far into the future. The past is left as an exercise in recollection to serve up reminders of all the unpleasant loops we threw in our life path and most importantly, to help us choose a better, more productive path when we find ourselves at a similar node in the future.

Re: The past is not true

#177

Post by confoundcofound »

miiiiiike wrote: post #134

He did the right thing by seeking her out to apologize. The rest doesn’t hold water. “There’s a small chance that the chaos and ruin I’ve visited upon others may not be as bad as as those people made me think. Thanks, I knew my negligence/malice wasn’t that big a deal.” The worst people that I’ve ever met would love for that to be true. They’ll stab people in the back or work to damage people’s careers and when you c…

This type of mentality is readily observed amongst abusive parents. "That was a long time ago, why can't you move on?" "You were a sensitive child."

I will never understand people who seem to lack the ability to see that their actions may have a rippling effect throughout someone's life. One can meaningfully and negatively alter the trajectory of someone's life with one action.

I'm not advocating that we live in neurotic paralysis wrecked with the fear of unknowingly hurting others, but we should accept that whatever hurt we do inflict can have long-lasting implications, and when others shed light on ways we may have hurt them, that we lean in, understand, and make amends if possible.

We are all connected.

Re: The past is not true

#178

Post by lesuorac »

munificent wrote: post #172
TheAceOfHearts wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Images play a big role in how events are perceived. Whenever there's a natural disaster you tend to see all of the worst examples, even if they're not fully representative of the event. But I think it's sometimes necessary in order to get people to take these events seriously, since they can negatively affect so many people. Otherwise people might look at images where some things look normal and think that those who…

As someone who has experienced several serious floods, this is my favorite example of imagery's ability to craft a reality: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgm3_jzcNm4 Floodwaters tend to stir up a lot of dirt and mud, so the water is usually totally opaque. That makes it very hard to tell how deep it is. A lot of overhead views of flooded neighborhoods look completely disastrous, but in reality it's just a foot or t…

> Is your oar hitting ground

I thought it was really weird the way she was paddling but that line at the end of the video is probably the explanation.

Re: The past is not true

#179

Post by denton-scratch »

mmusson wrote: post #51
anbende wrote: post #40

I think the article is sending a pretty problematic overall message. The underlying story is somewhat interesting. The author went through life with a lot of unnecessary guilt and suffering because he was carrying around a false narrative, and it is true that false narratives happen. But the larger conclusion he tries to draw from it seems really problematic: >History is not true. You can change history. The actual f…

I think the point is that interpretation is all we really have. We believe that memories are these absolute things, but rigorous studies show that no human being remembers things perfectly, even when they believe they do. For many years as a kid, I knew Santa Claus was real because I had seen him come to my house. My faith was unshakable, because I had observed it with my own eyes. Years later, I found out that on Ch…

As a parent-governor, the headmaster shanghai'ed me into performing as Father Christmas; I had to put on the costume, and go round all the classrooms going "ho ho ho".

When I got to my daughter's classroom, she didn't recognize me. But some other kids did; they told her "That's your Dad!". She was mortified, and burst into tears.

I always despised the Father Christmas lie, and I should have refused; but the headmaster was very dominant and manipulative.

Re: The past is not true

#180

Post by jstummbillig »

miiiiiike wrote: post #134

He did the right thing by seeking her out to apologize. The rest doesn’t hold water. “There’s a small chance that the chaos and ruin I’ve visited upon others may not be as bad as as those people made me think. Thanks, I knew my negligence/malice wasn’t that big a deal.” The worst people that I’ve ever met would love for that to be true. They’ll stab people in the back or work to damage people’s careers and when you c…

> Most people who have been told that they’ve caused actual harm, probably did.

I think you might be missing the point of the story. To my understanding it could have easily have turned from a rosy past to a grim presence and it would have worked all the same.

The point of the story is that, supposedly, the difference in perception is the entire difference. Something is not true, just because it's in the past. The act of reinterpreting is the act of reshaping, what is true.

Personally, I don't know how true that is :) But it's a somewhat interesting thought.

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