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French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

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Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#171
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or course the French government doesn't support ISIS, they also monitored everyone who fought for them. The problem is that these people are (supposedly) radicalised, and with active military experience (and probable related PTSD), not who they fought against.

[flagged]

> How is someone who fights against ISIS radicalized?

The Taliban are fighting ISIS... do you consider the Taliban to be radical ?

Some people in the thread should open a book or two, we're not in "bad guys vs good guys" world

Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#172
post #144
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have had well-educated French acquaintences telling me for a decade that France is ripe for a new system of government; the 6th in its history. Many current problems stem from the fact that post-war mechanisms written into the governmental system are abused by the president and elected leaders. E.g. presidential overruling of parlamental votes.

> I have had well-educated French acquaintences telling me for a decade that France is ripe for a new system of government First, this is not "well-educated French acquaintences" so much as it is supporters of Melanchon's LFI political party, who explicitely campaign on the idea of ending the 5th republic to start a 6th where all problem would be magically solved. Second, the reason I hate his proposal, is because he…

Not everybody that want a 6th republic are supporters of Melanchon's party. We have to be careful about this kind of amalgamation.

Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#173
These guys are up to no good and intentionally misuse the loaded language. Because it's loaded.

-----

terrorism

noun

the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

"the fight against terrorism"

Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#174
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone taking weapons somewhere (regardless of the cause) is always a dangerous person. Regular soldiers included and the government treat them as such. It's an unfortunate position (of course) if that person is fighting on "your" side.

Yes, but the problem here is not that, it's the arguments used to build the case. They have not been any evidence of criminal activities by those people. So far, all what they have against them is "they are protective about their privacy". That's a terrible reason to arrest and maintain people in jail.

The act of going to Syria to fight on either side is a crime in itself.

Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#175
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yesterday the French government dissolved an environmental movement (which I don't like btw), amongst the reasons stated[0] are that they leave their phones at home or switch them off, refuse to talk to the police when arrested, or even that they organize their protest over the internet. When accused of authoritarian tendencies the government usually answers "go to China or North Korea to see what a dictatorship is l…

They have not been dissolved because they left their phone at home, they have been dissolved because it was a violent organisation that was systematically attacking the police and destroying property. And given the sort of stuff they brought to their protests: swords, machettes, baseball bats, jerrycan, bricks, fireworks, petanque balls, Molotov cocktails, fire bombs, etc, it is particularly disingenuous to pretend t…

Impressive mix of lies.

The total value of items destroyed has been estimated to be about 8 million by the French state. While not a small number, I haven't seen the antiterrorist police be sent to the FNSEA's headquarters for their history of violence and destruction ever since 1960. It is part of their methods ever since their inception, but greasing some palms high up in the government certainly helps.

>And given the sort of stuff they brought to their protests: swords, machettes, baseball bats, jerrycan, bricks, fireworks, petanque balls, Molotov cocktails, fire bombs, etc, it is particularly disingenuous to pretend they have been dissolved for not talking to the police when arrested.

Violence. Is. Caused. By. The. Police. None of these, not a single one of these items were used until the police started indiscriminately tear gassing thousands of protesters, the vast majority of them peaceful. Five thousand grenades and weapons classified as war weapons used on protesters. Half of the items you mention were taken by the police with roadblocks more than twenty kilometers away. Sorry for driving with petanque balls in my trunk, I guess.

>You can read the actual decret in French: https://twitter.com/GDarmanin/status/1671450289298198528

Sure, let's read the sexual abuser, the national-socialist-journal-writing sack of shit's declaration. One part in particular is very interesting:

Considérant d'autre part que le groupement SLT diffuse a ses membres et sympathisants, via ses réseaux sociaux, des modes opératoires directement inspirés de ceux des >; que parmi ces préconisations figurent le port de tenues interdisant leur identification par les forces de l'ordre, en contradiction avec les habitudes des militants écologistes de manifester a visage découvert, le fair de laisser son téléphone mobile allumé a son domicile ou de le mettre en > en arrivant sur les lieux de la manifestation pour éviter le bornage, le fait de ne pas communiquer les codes dévérrouillage de l'appareil ou de ne pas répondre aux forces de l'ordre en cas d'interpellation; qu'y figurent également des consignes d'ordre médical >; que par ailleurs est préconisé le port du masque FFP3; de lunettes de protection contre les gaz; ...

For the HNers that to not have the privilege to read the beautiful language of the country of Human Rights, where protesters get arbitrarily arrested in the hospital and in their homes, this is a translation of how they justify being a single step below "declaring ecologist protestors an actual terrorist group":

Considering that the SLT group spreads to its members and sympathizers through social networks, operative modes directly inspired from those of >; that amongst those suggestions include wearing outfits preventing their identification by the police forces; in contradiction with the habit of protesting with their face out usually had by ecologist protestors; the fact of leaving their mobile phones turned on in their homes or to put them in airplane mode when arriving at the protest to avoid triangulation; to refuse to communicate their passwords or to refuse to respond to the police when being arrested; that also contains medical related orders: >; that wearing FFP3 masks and gas protection glasses is recommended...

Want to add some more ? Sure. They arrested an EELV member that was not present at any of the protests. Why ? Because he left his phone at home and used it in airplane mode. https://twitter.com/marinetondelier/status/16714362394494935...?

Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#176
post #95
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The situation in France is dire and crazy. This will not end well.

I have had well-educated French acquaintences telling me for a decade that France is ripe for a new system of government; the 6th in its history. Many current problems stem from the fact that post-war mechanisms written into the governmental system are abused by the president and elected leaders. E.g. presidential overruling of parlamental votes.

The fifth republic is the result of a coup by a military leader (De Gaulle) that was in talks with commanders of tank divisions to drive to Paris should he not be instated president and allowed to write his own constitution (written by Pierre Debré, a friend of his).

It was ripe to burn since 1958.

Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#178
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As others have mentioned, context matters a lot. No, it does not. While this group is indeed suspicious, detaining them without a proof (and using whatsapp as your proof) opens a serious precedent. Now anyone can be detain for that. And it'll be used for serious suspicious cases later but also will be used against someone like you because someone in the police didn't like how you walk.

Fighting for a foreign nation and/or mercenaries is illegal in itself

Some countries made an exception for Ukraine…

Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#179
post #161
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As others have mentioned, context matters a lot. No, it does not. While this group is indeed suspicious, detaining them without a proof (and using whatsapp as your proof) opens a serious precedent. Now anyone can be detain for that. And it'll be used for serious suspicious cases later but also will be used against someone like you because someone in the police didn't like how you walk.

> opens a serious precedent Of note for US readers, France legal system is not a jurisprudential system as in the US. That is, a judge's ruling does not become law - i.e must be followed as law by another judge -, only parliament can make law. The only instance having a form of jurisprudence power is Cour de Cassation, but that's only indirect: being the ultimate instance of recourse CCass rulings for similar cases h…

That's interesting. So even if the judge knows their ruling could be the worst of several options, they're boxed into doing so because it's the law?

Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#180

Situation in France will not end well. Both rule of law and liberal democracy are increasingly damaged. Our institutions are so weak that we are one election away from a complete disaster. Our constitution always concentrated a lot of power in the hand of the president but there is no effective counter-power left. The government set multiple precedent that violate freedom of assembly and association and parliamentary…

> EU knows and complains about Poland & Hungary but France is going to be a shitshow of a far worse magnitude.

I am French too and this sounds greatly exaggerated. Either you don't really know about the situation in Hungary or you have a very twisted view of what's happening in France (maybe induced by the medias). You should take a step back.

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