Live data from Hacker News

Google uses in-person office attendance as part of employee performance reviews

fortune.com

171–180 of 366 posts

Re: Google uses in-person office attendance as part of employee performance reviews

#171
people are getting so hung up on remote vs office as though it's either or.

Out side of tech people who want to work in the office 5 days a week are in the minority along with people who want to work at home 5 days a week. The vast majority of people want the _flexability_ to decide when to go in. They'll go in for a change of scenery, to socialise with colleagues (not necessarily after work but idle chit chat in the office) or to informally speak to a few people.

Demanding and mandating people come back to the office is a real shitty move, and does nothing but cause stress and anxiety to everyone.

Re: Google uses in-person office attendance as part of employee performance reviews

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think in-person is better if you don’t know what you need to build. I’ve experienced teams where people were totally without direction despite being in-person. I think in-person just makes it easier to look like you are busy when you have no direction, and remote lays the fact bare.

Agree that though it's better in person during brainstorm / discussion, it isn't decisive. When people are having zero ground during the meeting, it won't provide any meaningful result no matter what you do. And if it resulting in something, usually it'll be bad. What I found to be the best approach is one or two people already established a concept at what to make or at least the image of it, and the discussion can…

>Agree that though it's better in person during brainstorm / discussion

Yes, that's why before WHF, people really loved meetings and brainstorm sessions at work /s

In person during brainstorm discussion usually means endless time-wasting and bikeshedding.

Re: Google uses in-person office attendance as part of employee performance reviews

#174
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It might be useful to "all be in the room" when brainstorming. Hasn't every study on brainstorming found that it's not a good way to generate good ideas? With having people breathing the same air in a small space believed to be a contributing factor to that.

Yeah high CO2 concentration is probably making people less sharp, but mostly I've heard it's about people being less creative due to consensus-driven thinking Per https://twitter.com/emollick/status/1194301106584616960 : > People in groups self-censor and anchor on each others ideas, reducing creativity. Also can be anti-inclusive when "anchor on each other idea" is a euphemism for that guy repeating what a more shy…

I have a hunch that the sort of mental incapacity that comes on with higher CO2 levels lends itself to group-think, so it's a combinatorial problem. I think you'd still get the same problems outside, I just think they're more pronounced in a stuffy meeting room.

Re: Google uses in-person office attendance as part of employee performance reviews

#175

people are getting so hung up on remote vs office as though it's either or. Out side of tech people who want to work in the office 5 days a week are in the minority along with people who want to work at home 5 days a week. The vast majority of people want the _flexability_ to decide when to go in. They'll go in for a change of scenery, to socialise with colleagues (not necessarily after work but idle chit chat in the…

From the point of a rational organisation it doesn't make sense either. Do it half-way and you end up with everyone on video calls to people who aren't there; do it fully and you're overpaying for the space because, yes, really, it's colossally inefficient to have everyone on-site when they don't need to be.

Weirdly it also doesn't make sense to give people full flexibility to pick when to be on-site, though - at least, not from the point of view of their role within the larger organisation. Yes, you want them to be able to choose to be on-site when someone they need to work with is there, but also there needs to be a mixing function: as their boss you need to be ensuring that they are physically proximate to functions they haven't previously interacted with. You don't need much of this, but the main benefit of on-site working is discovery, not collaboration within an existing framework. And without a certain amount of curation that's unlikely to happen by accident. When two people get chatting in the kitchen, you need one of them, at least, to have that spark of recognition that says "Ah ha! Your thing is relevant to my thing!" because that's the fundamental innovation and discovery driver.

What's happening is that the bosses are leaning on random chance to do that curation job. I think that for most organisations it's very, very unlikely to be doing a good enough job to compensate for the downsides, but it also explains why the 37Signals approach of getting everyone in the building together at once works for them. That's still relying on randomness, but it's stacking the deck. Or rather, un-stacking it. If you allow people to pick which day a week, say, they come into the office, you'll get the Monday people, the Thursday people, and ne'er the twain shall meet. With everyone on-site at once, there's at least a chance a natural Monday will meet with a natural Thursday and produce an outcome that wouldn't have happened otherwise.

Re: Google uses in-person office attendance as part of employee performance reviews

#176

I've mentioned this in another WSJ just five days ago: "For context, Fortune, WSJ, FT, etc. have all been consistently over the past 2 quarters churning out several opinion articles on the topic of remote work." It is an obvious concerted effort to shape public opinion in order to save commercial real estate investors who were caught with their pants down now that several companies are not renewing leases.

It's not just commercial real estate. Those are all print publications bought as physical products by commuters. They're looking at through-the-floor print sales and panicking.

Re: Google uses in-person office attendance as part of employee performance reviews

#177
The correct formula is remote with team summits but FAANG is too cheap and dysfunctional to manage that. Travel is cancelled due to perpetual "headwinds" and the budget is strictly used by high level middle management to bounce around the world and vigorously agree with each other.

Re: Google uses in-person office attendance as part of employee performance reviews

#178
post #29

I never cease to be amazed the extent to which companies are trying to squeeze the remote work genie back into the bottle. They're desperate to find ways to make that expensive office space seem justified. "See, look! The people are using it. They love it." (Just out of frame, guns are pointed at the workers.)

I never cease to be amazed at the extent to which knowledge workers want to make "replace us with Eastern Europeans/Latin Americans/Indians" as painless a drop in as possible.

Most everyone from those "cheap" areas have either already moved/organized good pay and thus getting paid the same as the "expensive" westerners, or are completely garbage and will result in a complete rewrite that ends up costing 10x more than just hiring competent people in the first place.

Re: Google uses in-person office attendance as part of employee performance reviews

#179
post #14

I attended a HR conference a few months ago with several Fortune 500 company heads of people, etc. Most of the sentiment in the room was that WFH flexibility is valuable but so is collaborative time in office. Some more 'forward-thinking' leaders were all in on remote though it was clear this was the minority. The leaders talked a lot about pressures from other execs on wanting to go back in-office even though they k…

I would strongly suspect a division between hierarchical and egalitarian mindsets on this, and would be fascinated if there's any research on it. My gut suspicion would be that a hierarchical mindset would value exerting control over the outcomes of that control, and that an egalitarian mindset would value giving autonomy over the costs of that autonomy. In fact, I think that's likely to be such a strong influence that haggling over the value of "collaborative time in office" is going to be a fig-leaf over the underlying drivers. Not a small part of that is because when you look at the argument it just falls apart: you can tell me to be in a room with someone else; you can't dictate that the result of that proximity is going to be any sort of useful collaboration. Whereas if I have the flexibility to choose to be in that room when it is useful to both of us and we have something defined to get done, the outcome of that collaboration is far more likely to be positive.

If the argument was about discovery rather than collaboration I'd have far more sympathy, but "we need to force our employees into physical proximity so they'll work together" - which, when you unpack it, is all that is being said - is a more revealing position than the pro-office-mandate crowd might want to lead with.

Re: Google uses in-person office attendance as part of employee performance reviews

#180
post #20

After going back and forth between in-person and remote jobs, my conclusion: * Remote work is much better if you know what you're building and "just" need to execute. * In-person is much better if you don't know what you need to build, are trying to "figure it out as you go along", and are relying on the implicit fast feedback loop of standing next to each other. Obvious, right? But I think what I've realize is the d…

> * In-person is much better if you don't know what you need to build, are trying to "figure it out as you go along", and are relying on the implicit fast feedback loop of standing next to each other.

Beyond the practical scope of this point, we also find the need for mentoring (building a sustainable team).

Post reply on HN