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Air quality monitors: paying more does not get you more accuracy

airgradient.com

171–180 of 218 posts

Re: Air quality monitors: paying more does not get you more accuracy

#171
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they lie to cover up the cheapness and inadequacy of their flextures. "Users can't handle the truth" is a bullshit excuse and you should be ashamed for making it.

That seems like an unnecessary escalation. It's possible that OP has observed what they're describing before.

Yeah, but I've observed patronizing excuses for corporate misbehavior before and they trigger me a bit, what can I say.

Re: Air quality monitors: paying more does not get you more accuracy

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can recommend Xiaomi Smart Scale 2 ( not the body composition one, it's nonsense). It is very accurate and repeatable. So much so, that you can see your weight drop after you go to the toilet. It is fascinating how much one's weight fluctuates during the day (or night which is even weirder if you don't eat/drink anything!)

Can confirm that! My morning routine includes “removing” any extra weight before weighting myself. It is very accurate.

It's like a game comparing the measurements

Re: Air quality monitors: paying more does not get you more accuracy

#173
post #116
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't say it's the same. Low cost air quality measurement is difficult. PM is tricky but almost manageable with laser scattering, toxic gases at typical inquinant concentrations are almost impossible to get right with electrochemical sensors, no matter how much money you throw at them. Weight measurement is easy, they could give you precise and accurate results but most customer base doesn't understand anything…

Easy solution though, just limit the scale's display to a magnitude that it can accurately measure reproducible.

Easy solution if your customer understands accuracy. They don't.

They want the highest resolution so they can see their 10 gram progress when dieting. But they want the measurement to be stable enough to not cause them too much anxiety.

Re: Air quality monitors: paying more does not get you more accuracy

#174
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems like an unnecessary escalation. It's possible that OP has observed what they're describing before.

Yeah, but I've observed patronizing excuses for corporate misbehavior before and they trigger me a bit, what can I say.

My point was not to patronize anyone. My point was that one measurement (air quality) is difficult from a physics and technology standpoint. Low cost accurate air quality measurement at consumer level is not possible no matter how much you are willing to spend.

The other one, weight, is easy enough and if it's not accurate it is for commercial reasons. Either because what I said or what you said. Both could be true.

Re: Air quality monitors: paying more does not get you more accuracy

#175
post #3

Author here. I wrote this article a few weeks ago after discovering that a well known air quality monitor in the market that retails for more than USD 1000 actually uses a PM module that costs less than USD 20. Often people assume that the more expensive, the better but as you can see in the article this is often not the case -especially when it comes to the accuracy of the monitor. If you are looking for an open sou…

Just a note to say that I bought the Air Gradient pre-soldered indoor monitor kit. It was simple to put together and I appreciate the lack of a required cloud server connection. I'm glad to the the outdoor monitor kit is now available - just in time for fire season!

Re: Air quality monitors: paying more does not get you more accuracy

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whoah there: Your typical (cheap) consumer scale will have four (50kg) load cells hooked up to an hx711 (or clone) and the cheapest microcontroller the manufacturer could find that can drive an LCD directly. Even the cheapest load cell is pretty damned accurate and the average between the four of them is going to be accurate within 0.1kg (~0.22lbs). Having said that, load cells have this problem where their values dr…

When you cheap out on flextures, it's not the accuracy under ideal perpendicular loads that goes, and cheap housings struggle to provide ideal perpendicular loads. These are not particularly difficult things to get right, but the construction of even relatively expensive ($150) scales is so cheap that it screws this up and results in >1% deviation over the surface of the scale if you bypass the digital cheating mecha…

What the heck are you talking about? The only flexure to speak of is within the load cell itself and... Can you even call that a flexure? It's a teeny tiny strain gauge mounted on a piece of steel that's going to bend ever so slightly when a weight is put on it. Even the cheapest load cells are precision-manufactured well within the tolerances necessary for the strain gauge to give you damned accurate results.

I've never seen a human weight scale that went beyond a single decimal place and in all honestly they're going to be very accurate. If you get on the scale and it says 201.2lbs that measurement is going to be accurate within ±0.1lbs (actually, more than that but you only get one decimal point of precision). If you put the scale next to something that's emitting a ton of electrical noise then maybe it'll be off by 0.2lbs but I doubt it.

Re: Air quality monitors: paying more does not get you more accuracy

#177

Does AirGradient have any options that are connected and powered via PoE? The Awair Omni looks like a great option for what I imagine I'd like to set up but it would be nice to support Air Gradient if possible.

The AirGradient uses the D1 wemos as the microcontroller & network connectivity. There are D1 ethernet shields that have PoE that would make it pretty easy to slap on top of the d1 and provide this exact feature, however you might need to tweak the code a bit to switch the network access from wifi to ethernet.

Re: Air quality monitors: paying more does not get you more accuracy

#178
post #33

This is not a joke, I am really asking: how do you measure the accuracy of an air quality monitor? Comparing it to another monitor? Creating an air pollution condition and seeing how close to that is the measurement?

You don't really need super accuracy in the way you do for a body weight scale where a 2% change matters.

You watch the readings go up and down as you close windows and cook and then open windows and let the fresh air in. You'll watch CO2 go up to 1200 and then back down to 500. Or PM2.5 go from 2 to 25 and back.

They're big changes that obviously correlate in logical ways with what is happening in your home.

And then it's really the relative changes you're watching. Even if values are off by 20% it doesn't really matter a ton for private personal use.

Because you're really just learning what the baseline values are for fresh air, how quickly values grow, and therefore when you prefer to open some windows. (Or this week, close them.)

Re: Air quality monitors: paying more does not get you more accuracy

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you compared the Sensirion SEN55 against the Plantower sensors? I ask because I’ve recently picked up both and have played around with them each individually but haven’t compared them for accuracy yet. The nice thing about the SEN55 is that it contains all of the sensors in one unit (PM1.0 to PM10.0, temperature, Relative Humidity, NOX and VOC). They do cost a little bit more than the Plantower units, about $30-…

Yes, we are looking at the SEN55. The reason we currently still use the Plantowers is that there is a lot more research out there on the Plantower and how it behaves in different environments.

I would definitely like some research into the SEN5x line of sensors. I have three air quality monitors in the house. Two of them are AirGradient kits (Basic and Pro), with the other one I made myself using a SEN55 and SCD41. All of them are using ESPHome for the firmware.

With the current very bad air quality in the US Northeast, I noticed that the SEN55 was reading much higher than the two Plantowers in the AirGradients. At one point, the SEN55 was reading around 200µg/m³, while the Plantowers were reading around 100µg/m³. I am planning on buying a second SEN55 to check this.

Re: Air quality monitors: paying more does not get you more accuracy

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Nintendo Wii balance board is the only good scale you can get and it isn't expensive. A balance board, Wii, and small TV is probably around $500.

You don't even need the Wii itself! You can connect to the balance board via Bluetooth, and there are several libraries out there that can read out its data (and that of the Wiimotes as well).

Do they give you the same feedback about shifting your weight so that you get an acceptably small deviation between the four sensors?
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