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Japan’s government will not enforce copyrights on data used in AI training

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Re: Japan’s government will not enforce copyrights on data used in AI training

#171

Post by Dalewyn »

georgewsinger wrote: post #6

Japan also ranks 3rd (behind the USA & India, with larger populations) in ChatGPT usage: https://www.demandsage.com/chatgpt-statistics/ There's also been discussion of their government using ChatGPT to reduce red tape: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-04-18/japan-gov... It's cool to see Japan and Japanese culture taking techno-optimist stances on AI.

>It's cool to see Japan and Japanese culture taking techno-optimist stances on AI.

Japan has always seen artificial intelligence and its integration into human society favorably. Look at Doraemon or any anime in the super robot genre.

Re: Japan’s government will not enforce copyrights on data used in AI training

#172

Post by MattRix »

elemos wrote: post #163
zulban wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty good argument but it has one fatal flaw. People can memorize the Declaration of Independence too. Or Harry Potter. If people mostly recite HP from memory but apply enough creative changes, it's not copyright infringement. So proving a system can memorize and recite proves nothing.

How does this make sense? Memorizing and then reciting copyrighted works is still infringement in a lot of commercial contexts.

The reciting part is illegal, but as long as it is trained not to recite things in full (or to whatever limit the law determines), then it should be fine.

Re: Japan’s government will not enforce copyrights on data used in AI training

#173

Post by sanxiyn »

kmod wrote: post #155

Not trying to express an opinion on the legal matter, but as a technical matter it's pretty obvious that LLMs create copies of (some of) their training data. Here's GPT-3.5 reciting the Declaration of Independence: https://chat.openai.com/share/eb30c373-7fec-4280-892d-479567... Unless you're claiming that GPT-3.5 is deriving the Declaration of Independence (from information about the founding fathers?) I don't see ho…

For detailed investigation of this phenomenon, see Speak, Memory: An Archaeology of Books Known to ChatGPT/GPT-4: https://arxiv.org/abs/2305.00118

Re: Japan’s government will not enforce copyrights on data used in AI training

#174

Post by grt_thr »

fnordpiglet wrote: post #19

I think this should generally be true. The aggregation performed by model training is highly lossy and the model itself is a derived work at worst and is certainly fair use. It may produce stuff that violates copyright, but the way you use or distribute the product of the model that can violate copyright. Making it write code that’s a clone of copyright code or making it make pictures with copy right imagery in it or…

I guess I should just never have to pay for another movie since I can't play it back in my head flawlessly.

Re: Japan’s government will not enforce copyrights on data used in AI training

#175

Post by Riverheart »

bastawhiz wrote: post #92
musicale wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's no difference between an art student looking through a museum or archives for ideas and an AI using the material for training. A few notable differences: 1. Scale: a single art student can't view millions of works in a week. 2. Duplication: a single art student's brain can't be cloned or downloaded into another art student's brain. 3. Speed: a single art student cannot draw or paint thousands of images in a…

Notably none of those things, if they did apply to the art student, are copyright violations. The speed, scale, versatility, and ownership of a machine learning model has no bearing on its ability to violate copyright.

Good reasons not to assign copyright to their output, at least not without some caveats.

Re: Japan’s government will not enforce copyrights on data used in AI training

#176

Post by crazygringo »

kmod wrote: post #155

Not trying to express an opinion on the legal matter, but as a technical matter it's pretty obvious that LLMs create copies of (some of) their training data. Here's GPT-3.5 reciting the Declaration of Independence: https://chat.openai.com/share/eb30c373-7fec-4280-892d-479567... Unless you're claiming that GPT-3.5 is deriving the Declaration of Independence (from information about the founding fathers?) I don't see ho…

Sure, but the key part there is "some of".

They're necessarily able to produce verbatim copies only of the most duplicated, most repeated, most cited works -- and it's precisely due to their popularity that they're the only things worth including verbatim.

I'm not going to opine on what the legality of that should be, but it's essentially the material considered most "quotable" in different contexts. I'm quite sure the entirety of Harry Potter isn't included, but I'm also sure that some of the most popular paragraphs probably are. It's analagous to the kind of stuff people memorize.

I'd expect an LLM to contain this stuff. If it didn't, it would be broken.

But there's a world of difference between copying all its training data (neither desirable nor occurring), versus being fluent in quotable stuff (both desirable and occuring).

Re: Japan’s government will not enforce copyrights on data used in AI training

#177

Post by sdiupIGPWEfh »

Loocid wrote: post #157
hexage1814 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>compress an artist's painting into a model That's not how image models work.

It has been shown that image models can produce originals, or at least extremely close to the originals. If the outcome is the same, what is the difference between compression/decompression vs training/generation regarding copyright?

> It has been shown that image models can produce originals

Not in the general case, no. For the study done against Stable Diffusion [1], researchers were only able to reproduce about 0.03 percent of the images tested. Those were also believed to be cases of overfitting on images which were over-represented in the training data and they're not something you'd hit upon by accident.

Generative text models seen to be more problematic, depending on the subject. Code seems especially prone to overfitting, probably due to insufficient amounts of it compared to other text sources as well as lots of copying going on between the repos the models were trained on.

[1](https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2023/02/resea...)

Re: Japan’s government will not enforce copyrights on data used in AI training

#178

Post by GaggiX »

kmod wrote: post #155

Not trying to express an opinion on the legal matter, but as a technical matter it's pretty obvious that LLMs create copies of (some of) their training data. Here's GPT-3.5 reciting the Declaration of Independence: https://chat.openai.com/share/eb30c373-7fec-4280-892d-479567... Unless you're claiming that GPT-3.5 is deriving the Declaration of Independence (from information about the founding fathers?) I don't see ho…

The owners of intellectual properties still hold the copyright, the law refers to the training of neural networks, it doesn't really change anything if you use the work of another person by simply copy and paste or by overfitting a generative model, the owner of the work still has the copyright on it.

Re: Japan’s government will not enforce copyrights on data used in AI training

#179

Post by [deleted] »

LadyCailin wrote: post #84
jtode wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Big difference between the art student producing work and getting the credit vs you taking the art student's work and taking the credit for it. The AI is not a human, but what you are doing is the same thing, if you claim the output as your work because you wrote the prompt.

I couldn’t help but notice you didn’t credit any web browser in this comment. And rightfully so. Software doesn’t need or care about being credited. Well, usually. Sent from my iPhone.

[deleted]

Re: Japan’s government will not enforce copyrights on data used in AI training

#180

Post by Paradigma11 »

madeofpalk wrote: post #130
fnordpiglet wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think liability lies with the person who uses the product to violate copyright. The hosting / producing company didn’t violate copyright if I use their model to make Mickey Mouse pictures. I did.

How can you be certain that the content being generated is non-infringing?

The same way you do with any other content you generate in other ways.
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