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Mozilla stops Firefox fullscreen VPN ads after user outrage

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Re: Mozilla stops Firefox fullscreen VPN ads after user outrage

#171

Post by tivert »

0cf8612b2e1e wrote: post #48
ilikepi wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you miss the episode in 2017 in which they used an internal control to force the installation of an add-on as part of a promotion for a television show? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15941302 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15940144 I feel similarly to you...long-time user, bummed out by stuff like this. Sometimes it feels like Firefox would be a lot better off without Mozilla occasionally making deal…

I read a conspiracy that Google has paid off Mozilla management to specifically sabotage the browser development. Actions like this make it hard to dispute the moves that frequently seem deliberately anti-user.

> I read a conspiracy that Google has paid off Mozilla management to specifically sabotage the browser development. Actions like this make it hard to dispute the moves that frequently seem deliberately anti-user.

IIRC, didn't Mozilla lay off some R&D team that was doing some promising work on modernizing and improving its browser engine?

Re: Mozilla stops Firefox fullscreen VPN ads after user outrage

#172

Post by ilikepi »

jeroenhd wrote: post #87
ilikepi wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you miss the episode in 2017 in which they used an internal control to force the installation of an add-on as part of a promotion for a television show? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15941302 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15940144 I feel similarly to you...long-time user, bummed out by stuff like this. Sometimes it feels like Firefox would be a lot better off without Mozilla occasionally making deal…

The execution was definitely terrible, but "browser company ships promotional easter egg" isn't that bad as "browser company inserts ads into browsing experience" in my opinion. These ads are why Windows 10+ has become a trash fire despite all the technical improvements made to Windows. Mozilla were stupid enough to try and sneak this Roboto stuff in, probably as part of the requirements or intentions of the ad campa…

> The execution was definitely terrible, but "browser company ships promotional easter egg" isn't that bad as "browser company inserts ads into browsing experience" in my opinion. These ads are why Windows 10+ has become a trash fire despite all the technical improvements made to Windows.

I'm not sure I agree. The Mr. Robot "promotional easter egg" was done by installing an add-on via the Shield Study system. This system is enabled by default, and it is intended to allow the Firefox devs to run A/B tests with browser features.[1] This sort of system already makes some non-trivial minority of users bristle. For Mozilla to co-opt it specifically for an advertising campaign perfectly validates the concerns of that group of people. So then we get a thread on HN[2] in which several Firefox devs post about how badly they and their colleagues felt about the whole debacle, and how it would undoubtedly lead to many internal conversations. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that happened, and apparently[1] Shield Studies now require some level of scientific rigor behind them before they are deployed. But unfortunately, the marketing department still seems to be willing to sacrifice the ever-diminishing good will their remaining users seem to place in Mozilla as the steward of Firefox the browser. It doesn't feel to me like they fully appreciated the lessons of 2017.

[1]: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Firefox/Shield/Shield_Studies

[2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15940144

Re: Mozilla stops Firefox fullscreen VPN ads after user outrage

#173

Post by postalrat »

LeoPanthera wrote: post #153
horeszko wrote: post #152

I suppose now is a good time to ask if there are any good _non-corporate_ open source browsers out there? Seems to me that businesses operate within an incentive structure that will always encourage them to take maximum advantage of users and do anti-user things no matter what their original goals were. The non-corporate part is key imo (see Canonical, Mozilla now etc.)

On KDE, Falkon. On Gnome, "Web". On macOS, Safari may not pass your "non-corporate" requirement, but it's spiritually non-corporate, and functionally "just a browser". It's also wicked fast and extremely light on your resources. On many platforms, "ungoogled-chromium" may satisfy your needs. It's under the name "eloston-chromium" in many repos. https://github.com/ungoogled-software/ungoogled-chromium

Safari is the MSIE 6 of this time period.

Re: Mozilla stops Firefox fullscreen VPN ads after user outrage

#174

Post by ianlevesque »

i2cmaster wrote: post #35
slater wrote: post #7

Someone needs to make a "Firefox Marketing Department Greatest Hits" page; this isn't the first time, by far, they've tried to shoe-horn some absolutely user-hostile garbage into some release, followed by the usual "we will do better" back-pedalling non-apology

It's really a wonder Mozilla keeps going. They've absolutely lost it.

Does 2.7% market share really count as "going"? Mozilla certainly isn't relevant anymore.

Re: Mozilla stops Firefox fullscreen VPN ads after user outrage

#175

Post by boomboomsubban »

pessimizer wrote: post #160
boomboomsubban wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If true, it really backfired on them as buying Mozilla's default search is currently being used against them in a search engine antitrust suit.

According to a weird definition of "really backfired," because they would without question have been hit a long time ago with credible antitrust if they hadn't kept Firefox afloat (though user-hostile enough to keep people on Chrome.) There's such a marginal difference between the quality of the two browsers, and Chrome is held back in what it can be by the necessity of furthering Google's commercial interests. The o…

> would without question have been hit a long time ago with credible antitrust if they hadn't kept Firefox afloat

It is questionable, and being declared a search engine monopoly would be far worse for Google than Chrome being a browser monopoly. They only make Chrome to push their search/ad network.

Re: Mozilla stops Firefox fullscreen VPN ads after user outrage

#176

Post by LeoPanthera »

postalrat wrote: post #173
LeoPanthera wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On KDE, Falkon. On Gnome, "Web". On macOS, Safari may not pass your "non-corporate" requirement, but it's spiritually non-corporate, and functionally "just a browser". It's also wicked fast and extremely light on your resources. On many platforms, "ungoogled-chromium" may satisfy your needs. It's under the name "eloston-chromium" in many repos. https://github.com/ungoogled-software/ungoogled-chromium

Safari is the MSIE 6 of this time period.

That's lazy stereotyping and not even close to being a useful or accurate analogy.

Re: Mozilla stops Firefox fullscreen VPN ads after user outrage

#177

Post by john2x »

tezza wrote: post #123

Happened to me today. It mostly caused mild exasperation. I want FF to survive so this gave me mixed feelings. First off: they are allowed to try things! Great they are trying to keep the income incoming. Bad that they don’t know their users enough that they are attempting this tack. It screams of expensive external consultants building a campaign… Depleting the funds for FF.

I wouldn't mind seeing Mozilla VPN ads in the Settings menu or the 'new tab' page tbh. But injecting it on top of web pages directly is just scummy.

Re: Mozilla stops Firefox fullscreen VPN ads after user outrage

#179

Post by john2x »

mulmen wrote: post #43
charlieyu1 wrote: post #23

A lot of organisations/entrepreneurs have made decisions that are so out of touch with the user base that people would question why would someone do that. Like, I can understand maximising profit, but you don’t have to enrage your user base to achieve your goals

Depends on your goals. Facebook has done well selling outraged eyeballs.

And I guess a lot more people now know about Mozilla VPN. No such thing as bad publicity I guess?

Re: Mozilla stops Firefox fullscreen VPN ads after user outrage

#180

Post by john2x »

super256 wrote: post #16
walrus01 wrote: post #9

The particularly terrible thing about this is that the Mozilla VPN product is actually Mullvad underneath, one of the better and more ethical VPN providers. Then they have to do this popup ad bullshit pushed by the browser and take a dump all over it.

What is the value proposition of using Mozilla VPN over Mullvad directly, other than adding a layer of USA on top of it (which is a bad thing imo)? Also, has Mozilla VPN also a windows client, or is it more like the Opera Proxies (which were called VPN for some reason)?

It was cheaper the last time I looked at it. $5.00/mo for Mozilla, and Mullvad is Euro5.00/mo.
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