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A cryptocurrency company had a $65M bill, per Datadog’s Q1 earnings call

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Re: A cryptocurrency company had a $65M bill, per Datadog’s Q1 earnings call

#171
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just wait until they find your personal cell phone number and try to force you into scheduling a "time that works" on the calendar.

I have started invoicing companies for wasting my time and also threatening them with CAN-SPAM complaints for failing to include an opt-out, an actual mailing address, etc. Then, when my invoice isn’t paid, I threaten collections on them personally and the company. Usually that solves it. Then I’m “such a dick” but highly effective in recovering my time.

That's a great approach and I'd also be curious to know if somebody has paid you, my immediate guess would be "no" - but you never know

Re: A cryptocurrency company had a $65M bill, per Datadog’s Q1 earnings call

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have started invoicing companies for wasting my time and also threatening them with CAN-SPAM complaints for failing to include an opt-out, an actual mailing address, etc. Then, when my invoice isn’t paid, I threaten collections on them personally and the company. Usually that solves it. Then I’m “such a dick” but highly effective in recovering my time.

Wait, have any companies actually paid you?!

Please answer OP

Re: A cryptocurrency company had a $65M bill, per Datadog’s Q1 earnings call

#173

How does Datadog compare against Azure Application Insights?

I have limited experience in both.

We use Datadog for VM and database monitoring.

When I worked at a place that was all in on Azure, application insights was so we needed because we had no dedicated VMs just all built in Azure services (Cosmos, queues, blob/table storage and functions etc)

Re: A cryptocurrency company had a $65M bill, per Datadog’s Q1 earnings call

#174
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just keep scheduling a time that works, and then don't show up.

Back in the days when this kind of thing happened on the telephone, the SERIOUSLY passive aggressive trick was to talk to them, and then hang up on yourself . Repeatedly. "Hi this is Arnie from CHewemup'n'Spitemout Staffing, is this Bob?" "Hey Arnie, what perfect timing! I just started looking for a new opportunity, and I'm really excited to— CLICK." Ring ring. "This is Arnie, we seem to have been cut off." "Oh Arnie…

oh man, that's great-- you could probably get through a LOTT more CLICKs before they get the point. what a great use of human psychology-- they assume you have good intentions because you called them... it's a bit devious, but i'm gonna have to add that one to the toolbox hahaha.

Re: A cryptocurrency company had a $65M bill, per Datadog’s Q1 earnings call

#175
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OpenTelemetry (or OTel) is in no way an existential threat to DataDog. Primarily because OTel is simply the substrate/protocol by which data is collected from your apps/systems. DD does _a lot_ more than what OTel provides (RUM, SIEM, synthetics, on-call, dashboarding, anomaly detection, and much much more). If anything it's an existential threat to the more legacy vendors that aren't equipped to provide an OTel inge…

So your claim is that Datadogs pricing is ridiculous and that Otel allows you to not be locked in, but somehow Otel isn't a thread to Datadog? I don't follow.

The only part of overlapping functionality between DataDog and Otel is the agent.

In theory you could use the Otel Collector (or any other Otel-compatible agent) instead of the DD Agent to collect metrics/logs/traces. This would then make it easier for you to switch from DD to another Otel-compatible provider (Grafana, for example)... but 99.9% of what DD provides is _not_ the agent, it's dashboarding, alerting, RUM, synthetics, etc.

Basically Otel has made _agent_ switching costs effectively drop to zero, but that is a very small part of the whole picture. Like I said above, this primarily hurts vendors with proprietary agents that can't/won't adopt Otel for ingesting data.

Re: A cryptocurrency company had a $65M bill, per Datadog’s Q1 earnings call

#176

Having never heard of datadog, Wikipedia’s summary is: > Datadog is an observability service for cloud-scale applications, providing monitoring of servers, databases, tools, and services, through a SaaS-based data analytics platform. So it checks if your servers have crashed or slowed down with a nice dashboard? Any better summaries or descriptions of what it does and how coinbase would have used it?

Observability is about more than crashes or slowdowns, serious investment in observability is a must-have for any SaaS/cloud product to have reliability, auto scaling and velocity. It’s more than just crashes/slowdowns.

My team use Grafana’s open source LGTM stack. We use Prometheus metrics to track anything from JVM/Go runtime stats, K8S metrics, saturation of CPU/memory, scalability issues, crashes/OOMs, custom metrics for business insights, debugging. We use USE/RED metrics (see: Google’s SRE handbook) to track our production services performance in an objective way. We track SLAs and SLOs so we know when it’s time to focus on features and business impact, and when it’s time to put that aside to focus on stability and maintenance before our customers notice reduced reliability.

As a developer it’s really helpful for testing changes. For example, I added a new database index in dev, then run some load tests and check our dashboards before and after. I look at Q95 latency of APIs and database load to see if it has the desired effect, then when I roll out to production I can monitor those same dashboards and make sure the same desired improvement can be seen for real-word usage.

I used traces recently to discover that something that should have been happening in parallel was instead happening sequentially leading to very long/timing out requests. Adding visualisations via traces helps get your head around how something is working.

I added annotations to our dashboards that shows when our K8S pods restart alongside the metrics. This made me realise that some requests were failing exactly around deployments because we were not cleanly handling SIGTERM in some services.

We have started adding horizontal auto scaling based on metrics for the number of queued messages on a specific Kafka queue. If a large number of messages are waiting we spin up more K8S replicas, and then once this reduces, we reduce the replicas to keep costs down.

I optimise the resource allocations on our services by looking at historical CPU/memory usage so we make the best use of our K8S cluster and avoid OOMs as we scale.

We use Loki for log querying and parsing, you can create really advanced/domain-specialised log querying dashboards and provide that to your support team, and integrate those logs with traces to debug different stages of a request as it traverses your microservices or different processing stages.

You can even build dashboards from logs, which is helpful when debugging a particular type of error over time that you were not specifically monitoring with metrics, or determine which customer(s) are affected by this error. Alternatively if you have a legacy system that does not have effective metrics, you can build metrics from its logs.

We use our metrics for alerting and paging in a way that provides a better signal-to-noise ratio than old-school alerts like “high memory usage” so people don’t get woken up as much (we’ve had zero pages since my product launched 6 months ago!). It’s better to alert only when we have a measurable impact on customer experience, like when a smoke test has failed more than 80% of the time, or HTTP requests 5xx rate is elevated to abnormal levels.

It’s also really reassuring when you do a prod rollout to easily see that stuff is still working without digging into logs, so you can spend more time coding and less time babying prod.

Overall I think having good observability is definitely a worthwhile investment. There are cheaper ways to do it than datadog. I expect much of the trouble is that switching providers is a huge job, we have invested so much time building our observability stack, the challenge of moving seems massive. Thankfully we picked Grafana’s open source LGTM stack and self-hosted it. Even if you picked their SaaS offering, switching to open-source self-hosted is an option so you are less tied in.

Re: A cryptocurrency company had a $65M bill, per Datadog’s Q1 earnings call

#177

(Disclaimer: I work at Chronosphere) Our company helps avoid these kinds of observability bills and issues like scaling for fast-growing cloud deployments. Generally speaking, many vendors let you fall into the cardinality trap b/c they have an economic incentive to let you do so. One of our biggest selling points is that we provide an observability control plane that helps drill down into wasted queries, shows how m…

None of this should be even remotely necessary. It’s like being frugal with table salt. “We’ll show you how to make sure you don’t have even one crystal fall off the plate.” My personal pet peeve is Azure Application Insights which uses Log Analytics under the hood… at a rate of $2.75 per ingested GB of logs stored for one month. That’s highway robbery . Let that sink in: They charge $2,800 to store a TB of text that…

"They charge $2,800 to store a TB" !!! good god

Totally agree about the compressibility of metrics and toying with the scraping interval. I started out working for an enterprise monitoring vendor that had a proprietary agent that already decided sane intervals to emit metrics, when I learned that Prometheus let users configure that to me...just sounds like an expensive foot gun.

My real beef with metrics is at least for app layer insights is the waste. I'd so much rather have a span/event configured with tail sampling so you can derive metrics from traces and tie them to logs in a native contextualized way vs having to do that correlation on the backend and within different systems and query langs. Seems much more efficient and cost-effective that way, I'm scarred from seeing a zillion "service_name.http_response.p95.average" metrics that are imo useless

Re: A cryptocurrency company had a $65M bill, per Datadog’s Q1 earnings call

#178

I worked at Coinbase until very recently and can confirm this is Coinbase They paid upfront for 3 years of usage, and yes they were burning > $20m/year on datadog

Dear Lord...the commission on that hog. The sales team eating good.

I was previously in sales and SaaS is considered the pinnacle of industries to be in for sales people. Medical device sales is the only real competitor when it comes to earning potential and my understanding is that's US specific and also comes with atrocious work life balance.

Re: A cryptocurrency company had a $65M bill, per Datadog’s Q1 earnings call

#179

Stupid question: What open source solution can give me an easy Datadog(ish) experience and is simple to implement?

Grafana, Prometheus, Loki, tempo

Sooo nothing yet :D

We attempted to migrate from datadog to prometheus at GitHub and that stack did not cover our use case at all. So much tooling had to be recreated. I took a lot of flak when I pointed out numbers made sense to stay on DataDog and migrate to a Microsoft product instead, but the cost savings spoke for itself

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