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French publisher arrested in London for refusal to tell police his passcodes

theguardian.com

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Re: French publisher arrested in London for refusal to tell police his passcodes

#171

Post by 1827162 »

Paul-Craft wrote: post #170
1letterunixname wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has a specific name: inverted totalitarianism.

Yep. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism

Also democratic backsliding, which I think "new" Labour really set into motion starting all the way back in 1997.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_backsliding

Apparently there was Soviet influence on the Labour party and it was going on for decades, and may explain its particularly nasty authoritarian streak. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1225637/How-Kremlin...

From that Daily Mail article (2009):

" The unpalatable truth is that many ministers in Government today rose through the ranks of a British socialist movement that was heavily influenced - and even controlled - by the Kremlin in Moscow. "

" As the Spectator says: 'Indeed, New Labour, which has governed since 1997, cannot be understood unless these communist influences are taken into account. 'Many of New Labour's characteristics - its deep suspicion of outsiders, its structural hostility to democratic debate, its secrecy, its faith in bureaucracy, the embedded preference for striking deals out of the public eye, and its ruthless reliance on a small group of trusted activists, result from the lengthy detente with the Kremlin.' "

So russia is not only causing trouble in Ukraine, it also seriously affected politics here in the UK. And it might be why we are living in such a precarious situation, when it comes to our liberties, here in 2023.

Re: French publisher arrested in London for refusal to tell police his passcodes

#173

Post by 1827162 »

jussaying2 wrote: post #65
bilbo0s wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess to be fair, there always has been an authoritarian bent to Western democracies. It's just that most of us here on HN are not members of the groups against which those democracies employ authoritarian practices. It just kind of shows you why you have to stand up as soon as you see a practice or law that's F'ed up. It's pretty much a guarantee that on a time-scale long enough, that government will use that prac…

Even better, the folks who frequent HN could stop aiding authoritarianism by building the tech, but that would require turning down lucrative RSUs, so I'm not holding my breath.

I totally nuked my career in communications and networking as a result of Internet mass surveillance and the prosecution of Orwellian "thought crimes". It really is a modern day witch hunt. Had to do something else, and am so much happier now that it's gone.

Yes, I was so outraged and shocked from it, what the government was doing, specifically regarding Internet pornography, that I had "moral injury". A condition not dissimilar from PTSD. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_injury

We are living in the 21st Century and we are still behaving, on some level like it's 1692. The year when the Salem witch trials were carried out.

And few people speak up about what's going on. They consider it normal. Because of how the Overton window works. How the frog has boiled so slowly over the decades.

Re: French publisher arrested in London for refusal to tell police his passcodes

#174

Post by 1827162 »

zarzavat wrote: post #136
CaliforniaKarl wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to https://www.counterterrorism.police.uk/wp-content/uploads/20... point 59, it's legal for UK authorities to get information from electronic devices, and the device owner must unlock the device for the authorities. So, in the context of this UK-focused article, you're giving people advice on how to evade a search that, in the UK, is legal. Instead, I would suggest advocating for UK people and businesses to…

There’s no way the law will be changed. Both major parties support it and have done for decades. Fear and being tough wins votes, and even if it didn’t, what’s the point of being in power if you can’t jail a few dissidents? The only thing that politicians are afraid of is the media, and British people are sheep who follow the prevailing media narrative. If you want to change the law in Britain: buy a newspaper publis…

Yes, the Murdoch owned newspapers use moral panic to get these draconian laws passed. And it's been going on for decades. That is how our civil liberties are destroyed here in the UK.

It's an almost symbiotic relationship with the government.

Re: French publisher arrested in London for refusal to tell police his passcodes

#175

Post by midoridensha »

cscurmudgeon wrote: post #96
toyg wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germans are actually the most inoculated against that type of virus, they will be the last to fall. They are at the forefront of anti-authoritarian efforts in technology, for example. US/UK/France, on the other hand...

Wasn't Germany actively supporting Russia despite US warnings before the Ukraine war? https://elamerican.com/germany-mocked-trump-dependence-on-ru...

They were supporting Russia economically by purchasing energy (gas mainly) from them. They basically had the crazy idea that economically intertwining themselves with Russia and making themselves dependent on Russia would magically turn Russia into a modern, democratic European nation, basically "if we bring them into our club, they'll come around to our way of thinking". It didn't work, just like economically integrating with China hasn't turned China into a western-like nation either, it's only enabled the authoritarians.

Re: French publisher arrested in London for refusal to tell police his passcodes

#176

Post by 1827162 »

barnabee wrote: post #82
jussaying2 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even better, the folks who frequent HN could stop aiding authoritarianism by building the tech, but that would require turning down lucrative RSUs, so I'm not holding my breath.

We should not only stop building tech that aids authoritarianism but start building tech that fights it. Time for a cypherpunk revival.

And they'll just infiltrate your open source project, in the name of preventing petty "harassment" of developers. That way they will allow weaknesses in the protocol to arise, due to attrition of the best developers. And there you go, everything has been handed over to intelligence agencies, who can now easily break its security.

Re: French publisher arrested in London for refusal to tell police his passcodes

#177

Post by bill38 »

I'm wondering if there are similars laws in Germany ? Can you be required to provide password for your mobile phone or computer by German police ? I had the impression that they were more protective of personal informations in Germany but maybe I'm wrong.

Re: French publisher arrested in London for refusal to tell police his passcodes

#178

Post by c80e74f077 »

1letterunixname wrote: post #123
ornel wrote: post #67

According to this tweet[0] citing a (locked) article, the arrested publisher was asked by police "Do you support president Macron? Have you participated in the recent demonstrations in France? What books will soon be published by La Fabrique?". Scary stuff [0] https://twitter.com/Mathieu2jean/status/1648394577449984014

The proper personal data hygiene tips are: 0. Never take your primary personal or work cell phone to any demonstration 1. Cover your face, if you can, or wear anti-facial recognition makeup 2. Do not use social media from primary personal devices 3. Anyone intent on trying to join the cause is a cop. Until proven otherwise, anyone you meet is a cop 4. The standard response to any official questions in the future is t…

Guess what, #1 is illegal in France: “Nul ne peut, dans l'espace public, porter une tenue destinée à dissimuler son visage”[0] (No one may, in the public space, wear clothing intended to conceal his face). Anti-facial recognition makeup should be fine, though. For the time being.

[0] https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/loda/article_lc/LEGIARTI00002...

Re: French publisher arrested in London for refusal to tell police his passcodes

#179

Post by bierjunge »

bill38 wrote: post #177

I'm wondering if there are similars laws in Germany ? Can you be required to provide password for your mobile phone or computer by German police ? I had the impression that they were more protective of personal informations in Germany but maybe I'm wrong.

Disclaimer: IANAL

In German law you don't have to assist law enforcement in building a case against you, so you don't need to provide passwords or say anything. But you can be forced to unlock your device via biometrics (fingerprint, faceID, etc.).

I'm not sure how it works, when law enforcement calls you as witness. The law changed a few years back, so you are required to assist them, but I'm not sure to which extent.

Re: French publisher arrested in London for refusal to tell police his passcodes

#180

Post by georgeplusplus »

vintermann wrote: post #157
tristor wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of the reasons why other countries outside the US aren't as free as the US, even though the US is a complete mess too in different ways. Freedom of both speech and silence are not really respected in law anywhere outside the US to the extent that they are in the US.

The US laws against self-incriminating aren't unique, and many countries go much further. In Norway, you can't be convicted for lying to police and court at all, if it concerns accusations against you or your closest ones (I think that means your spouse and kids/parents in practice), or if it would cause considerable loss of social reputation or welfare of other kinds.

Define 'many countries'.
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