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The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

jonathanhaidt.substack.com

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Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#171

Post by oh_my_goodness »

yung_steezy wrote: post #31

I graduated high school around 2010, before all of these dramatic declines in mental health seem to take place, and even back then I remember there being a lot of unhappy people in my peer group. Maybe a certain % of miserable teenagers is guaranteed due to the nature of puberty (and humans). I hope we find a way to mitigate or reverse the trend these studies are highlighting. Schooling is essential and we can't allo…

My experience was the same in the early 1980s. There was a string of suicides at my high school.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#172

Post by naasking »

zug_zug wrote: post #34

These always come up and there's always this internet-commenter tendency to be like "I KNEW IT: SMARTPHONES/INTERNET/LACK-OF-RELIGION/ABCDEFG ANYTHING OF THE LAST 20 YEARS I HATE", which is fine for a hypothesis and worth somebody saying once. But it's really just a hypothesis. Another hypothesis is that it's environmental. There's a lot of research showing depression and stress are correlated with inflammation. Ther…

> Another hypothesis is that it's environmental

Social media and phones are environmental factors. Increasing obesity is definitely a factor. Whether sperm and testosterone are decreasing is still speculative because the old data being used for comparisons is pretty poor. I think air pollution has actually gotten better since the 80s last I checked. Maybe increases in 'forever chemicals' are having some effect.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#173

Post by giantg2 »

cornholio wrote: post #160
grammers wrote: post #80

The article has a point, but there's no proof for cause & effect. A completely different explanation could be that our societies are so advanced by now that we can finally listen to mental illnesses and take them seriously - while in the past people just had to 'function', no matter what.

While I agree there is no statistical proof in the article, it's a very strong hypothesis: we somehow only 'listen' to the mental problems of female teens, who see geometric increases in self harm, suicide and various disorders, twice or three times the pre-social media levels. Yet other categories see linear or token increases. Could it be just a coincidence that young females are exactly the demographic that is con…

"that is constrained by a gender role where aesthetic appeal and social interactions are the most valuable assets?"

In theory we should have seen a spike and then slow decline as gender norms and roles continue to become less segregating.

"Yet other categories see linear or token increases."

Yeah, because other categories may manifest their problems differently. Such as young men turning to violence and drugs more than intentional self-harm (almost the inverse of young women). That doesn't mean it's not the problem, just that it's not such a great proof.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#174

Post by loup-vaillant »

PuppyTailWags wrote: post #149
extasia wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That wouldn't explain such a drastic rise in one demographic (teenagers)

It might, since "teenager" is about a decade, and the opening paragraph cites... about a decade ago.

Your argument also applies to toddlers (1-10), Young students & workers (20-30), established workers (30-40)… pretty much any decade actually.

So no. It might not. Not for the reason you say at least. Improvements in diagnosis, self awareness and hospitalisation rates would have to happen specifically to teenagers, and unless someone can cite a specific reason why this is the case I just don't believe it. The increase is real.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#175

Post by ipaddr »

zwieback wrote: post #32

Next step would be to de-correlate smartphone usage, the prime suspect right now, from other trends happening at the same time. I have two daughters in that age range and I don't get the impression that social media is a big stressor for them in particular but I can easily believe that it is one of the primary stress factors for many young women.

Easy to test, take away their phone and see if stress levels raise

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#176

Post by PuppyTailWags »

censor_me wrote: post #161
PuppyTailWags wrote: post #152

Note that this isn't an unbiased source. This is working with Jon, the co-writer of The Coddling Of The American Mind, which uhhh is not without its critics for inaccuracies and stretching of truth. Check it out: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-coddling-of-the-am...

Linking a podcast isn't very good sourcing. I'm very intrigued to hear how the cuddling that's happening college campuses isn't happening, since anyone can see it in real time.

Here is a list of the referred critiques in the show notes:

The Miseducation of Free Speech (https://www.virginialawreview.org/articles/miseducation-free...)

College and the “Culture War”: Assessing Higher Education’s Influence on Moral Attitudes (https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/00031224211041...)

The Myth of the Campus Coddle Crisis (https://academeblog.org/2018/12/28/the-myth-of-the-campus-co...)

What ‘Safe Spaces’ Really Look Like on College Campuses (https://www.chronicle.com/article/what-safe-spaces-really-lo...)

Are College Campuses Really in the Thrall of Leftist Censors? (https://slate.com/human-interest/2015/03/hypersensitive-camp...)

Speaking Freely: What Students Think about Expression at American Colleges (https://www.thefire.org/research-learn/student-attitudes-fre...)

‘Not all cultures are created equal’ says Penn Law professor in op-ed (https://www.thedp.com/article/2017/08/amy-wax-penn-law-cultu...) How

Right Wing Media Has Tried to Stifle Student Speech at Evergreen State College (https://psmag.com/education/the-real-free-speech-story-at-ev...)

I'm a liberal professor, and my liberal students terrify me (https://www.vox.com/2015/6/3/8706323/college-professor-afrai...)

In College and Hiding From Scary Ideas (https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/22/opinion/sunday/judith-shu...)

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#177

Post by loup-vaillant »

ilammy wrote: post #151
extasia wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That wouldn't explain such a drastic rise in one demographic (teenagers)

Explains it rather well: older people dismiss their symptoms as “not real illness” because that’s what society taught them when they were kids.

Would a decrease in such dismissal would also explain the increase in hospitalisation rates for self harm? I personally doubt it.

(Edit: and whoever downvoted me would help a great deal by explaining how exactly an increase in hospitalisation rates are an indication that we take this stuff more seriously. A wound remains a wound.)

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#179

Post by beezlebroxxxxxx »

izzydata wrote: post #154
yung_steezy wrote: post #31

I graduated high school around 2010, before all of these dramatic declines in mental health seem to take place, and even back then I remember there being a lot of unhappy people in my peer group. Maybe a certain % of miserable teenagers is guaranteed due to the nature of puberty (and humans). I hope we find a way to mitigate or reverse the trend these studies are highlighting. Schooling is essential and we can't allo…

But is schooling from 7am-4pm sitting a classroom trying to memorize information essential? There are probably much more enjoyable and engaging ways to teach children what they need to know to live in a society.

I don't think it really should come down to a binary relationship between mental illness and "enjoyable and engaging", though. I do get your point. But, also, it's school. I don't remember always enjoying it or finding it engaging, but that didn't mean I was slipping into mental illness because a class was boring or didn't seem relevant when I was a teenager.

To your point, the model of school hasn't really changed in a long time; but, then again, we do see rates of mental illness changing. So, I don't really know if you can put the blame on the model of schooling in that instance.

As a side note, one thing that has changed in schools is the drop in physical fun, either in the expectations of gym classes, or during recess, or in school sports. It's either study like crazy, or focus on an extracurricular (possibly a sport) as if it's a second job to get into a good college; a lot of kids just aren't having good old physical fun as much as they used to, at least from my observation.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#180

Post by bigbillheck »

censor_me wrote: post #161
PuppyTailWags wrote: post #152

Note that this isn't an unbiased source. This is working with Jon, the co-writer of The Coddling Of The American Mind, which uhhh is not without its critics for inaccuracies and stretching of truth. Check it out: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-coddling-of-the-am...

Linking a podcast isn't very good sourcing. I'm very intrigued to hear how the cuddling that's happening college campuses isn't happening, since anyone can see it in real time.

> I'm very intrigued to hear how the cuddling that's happening college campuses isn't happening, since anyone can see it in real time

They were saying the same things when I was in college 30 years ago.

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